20 years ago, four dying people were able to access the Northern Territory’s world-first law to help them die more mercifully, before the law itself was extinguished. By the end of 2016, over 100 million people on three continents will be able to access such laws – the most recent places to adopt them being America’s most populous state, California, and Canada. Since that Northern Territory law was overturned in 1997, nearly 30 attempts to create a new one here in Australia have failed. But as the tide of history turns in favour of assisted dying, how much longer can our politicians continue to ignore the call for change? Bob Hawke, left, and Heather Bell — Photo credits: Bob Hawke by Eva Rinaldi (CC-BY-SA); Heather Bell, supplied The old arguments that have held such sway – about the elderly and the vulnerable being unsafe under these laws – no longer hold. Over a decade of experience in Europe, and nearly two decades in America, have shown us that the safeguards do work: that good laws can be created to help the few, and protect the many. In this final episode, drawing on what has worked best overseas, I’m going to tell you what I think that law for assisted dying in Australia should look like. Plus, we’ll hear from two significant stakeholders who both support a change in our law. One, a former Prime Minister. The other, the one major medical body that does officially support assisted dying. Tellingly, they’re the ones who see the suffering of patients every day and up close – the nurses.   'I think it is absurd that euthanasia is not legal within this country. It doesn't meet any requirements of morality or good sense.' Former Prime Minister of Australia, Bob Hawke Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Embed player Listen Better Off Dead: Interview with Richard Di Natale In March 2016, Australian Greens leader Richard Di Natale put forward a bill, co-sponsored by representatives from all the major parties, aimed at restoring the right of the Northern Territory, ACT and Norfolk Island to legislate for voluntary euthanasia. Here, he discusses the reasoning behind the bill – and the tactics required to create political change on this issue in Australia. Know more Video: 'Q&A: Facing Death' – Australian Broadcasting Corporation, 9 November 2015 Article: 'Bob Hawke calls for euthanasia to be made legal in Australia', by Calla Wahlquist – Guardian, 12 April 2016 Podcast episode: 'Andrew Denton asks, can Australia legislate for better death?' – Conversations with Richard Fidler, Australian Broadcasting Corporation, 23 February 2016 Research paper: 'How should Australia regulate voluntary euthanasia and assisted suicide?', by Ben White and Lindy Willmott – Australia21, November 2012 Essay: 'The right to die or the right to kill?: The argument against euthanasia', by Karen Hitchcock – The Monthly, December 2015–January 2016 Letter: In response to Karen Hitchcock's article (above), by Ian Maddocks – The Monthly, February 2016 Opinion: 'Assisted dying: the difficult conversation we need to have', by Ian McPhee – Age, 2 February 2016 Video: 'Andrew Denton has a new lease on death' – from Sunrise, Yahoo!7, 22 February 2016 Article: 'Medically assisted death weeks away in Canada', by Susan Delacourt – ABC News, 2 March 2016 Article: 'Push to restore voluntary euthanasia in NT, ACT and Norfolk Island', by Helen Davidson – Guardian, 1 March 2016 Speech: 'Voluntary Euthanasia', by Andrew Leigh MP – as spoken in House of Representatives, Parliament of Australia, 17 August 2015 In this episode Bob Hawke Doctors: Cathy, Vic, Andrew, Sarah and Paul Coral Levett Karen Hitchcock Heather Bell Richard Chye Leigh Dolin Michael Williams Marshall Perron Nancy Elliott Paul Russell Liz Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Hope There's Someone' (Antony and the Johnsons), 'Death Don't Have No Mercy' (Reverend Gary Davis), 'Further On (Up the Road)' (Johnny Cash), 'Into My Arms' (Nick Cave), 'Underneath the Stars' (Kate Rusby), 'The Parting Glass' (The Wailin' Jennys) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Bec Fary and Jon Tjhia. Thank you Thanks to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

Better Off Dead

#17 Why Do I Have to Go Through Hell to Get to Heaven?

 Paul Russell — Photo: Supplied My search for the truth about assisted dying began when I was invited to attend the HOPE International Symposium in Adelaide, featuring anti-euthanasia speakers from around the world.* There, I heard dire warnings about what was happening in Belgium, the Netherlands and Oregon – where laws to help people die already exist. At their heart lay two key accusations: that the safeguards don’t work, and that the elderly and disabled were threatened. I took careful note. Many months later – having taken off overseas to see if their warnings held true, and spoken to experts worldwide – I sat down with HOPE’s founder and director, Paul Russell, to talk through what I’d learned. * HOPE director Paul Russell has pointed out that he did not invite Andrew Denton to attend a HOPE symposium in May 2015 but rather that he agreed for Andrew to attend. We are happy to correct the record. 'I think what concerns me most is the stuff that you almost can't prove, you know.' Paul Russell, founder and director, HOPE: preventing euthanasia & assisted suicide Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Know more Editorial: 'Final certainty'  – Economist, 27 June 2015 (source) Opinion: 'The tide is turning in Australia's euthanasia debate', by Peter Singer – Age, 2 March 2016 In this episode Paul Russell Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode is 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Camilla Hannan. Thank you Thanks to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#16 Abandon Hope

Of all the arguments against assisted dying, the most heartless I’ve heard is this: Suicide is legal. Why do you need assistance to do something that you can do yourself? Every time I hear that thought expressed (and I’ve heard it more than once while making this podcast), I’m astonished at the ease with which the people saying it manage to completely overlook the suffering of the people they’re talking about. In this episode, we’re going to meet one of those people: father of two, Lawrie Daniel. At 50, and stricken with MS, what does it mean to Lawrie to be told, ‘suicide is legal – what’s stopping you?’ Lawrie and Rebecca Daniel at home — Photo: Andrew Denton 'Through MS, I've pretty much lost my fear of dying, because sometimes I think there are things that are worse than death.' Lawrie Daniel Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Know more Review: 'Book review: Kevin Yuill, "Assisted Suicide: The Liberal, Humanist Case Against Legalization"', by Iain Brassington – Journal of Medical Ethics blog, 3 July 2013 In this episode Kevin Yuill Lawrie Daniel Rebecca Daniel Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Loneliness #3 (Night Talking)' (Arcade Fire), 'Our Own Roof' (Nils Frahm), 'All Farewells Are Sudden' (A Winged Victory for the Sullen), 'They Move on Tracks of Never-ending Light' (This Will Destroy You) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Bec Fary. Thank you Thanks to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#15 Lawrie's Story

The repeated call by opponents of assisted dying is that the elderly and the vulnerable must be protected from coercion. In this, they are right – and there are many safeguards built into existing laws overseas which do exactly that. But what of the elderly described in this episode by two of Australia’s coroners: rational men and women from loving families – who, faced with an irreversible and painful decline into death, are deciding to kill themselves violently instead? Left: Joan Upton (with cake) pictured with her children Greg, Annette and Robert. Right: Philip Nitschke — Photos: Supplied If the law offers them no other way to end their suffering, who could be more coerced than them? And yet, on these vulnerable Australians – including beloved mothers, fathers, partners and grandparents – the opponents are silent. This silence needs to be challenged. It’s time we talked about Australia’s dark little secret. 'They all know it – including doctors. They know that this person is screaming for help but no one is going to answer this call. Not in this society. So they have got to die alone.' Victorian Coroner John Olle, appearing before the Parliament of Victoria's 2015 Inquiry into End Of Life Choices Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Embed player Listen Better Off Dead: Interview with Frances Coombe Robert ‘Brownie’ Brown was a much-loved and prominent figure in South Australia’s environmental conservation movement. Faced with a life of physical decline, where he could no longer do the things that were important to him, Brownie made the decision to end his life. Unusually, the 94-year-old left a note for the coroner – emphasising that he didn’t want depression listed as the cause of his suicide. Andrew spoke with South Australian Voluntary Euthanasia Society president Frances Coombe – a woman to whom Brownie was a close friend and mentor for over six decades – about the grim choice being made by many elderly Australians. Know more Transcript: 'Standing committee on legal and social issues: Inquiry into end-of-life choices' (PDF), including statements by coroner John Olle – Parliament of Victoria, 7 October 2015 (source) Interactive: 'The big sleep', by Julia Medew – Sydney Morning Herald, 12 January 2016 Article: 'Shaw family calls for Victorian Government to consider assisted death laws', by Julia Medew – Age, 16 February 2016 Article: 'Brighton couple found dead in 'suicide pact'', by Lucie Morris-Marr  – Herald Sun, 13 November 2015 (paywall) Opinion: 'Somebody kill my grandmother. Please', by Sian Prior – Age, 13 November 2015 Opinion: 'My mother euthanased herself. Was it empowerment, or despair?', by Nikki Gemmell – Australian, 16 January 2016 Opinion: 'Andrew Denton has fallen for the doctors' spin on the euthanasia debate', by Fiona Stewart – Brisbane Times, 8 November 2015 Article: 'Philip Nitschke: I don't judge people at all if they want to die', by Melissa Davey – Guardian, 27 December 2015 Article: 'SA coroner calls for debate about elderly people who end their lives alone', by Simon Royal – ABC News, 7 February 2015 In this episode Joan Upton Annette Upton Marshall Perron Mark Johns John Olle (re-enacted by Andrew Martin) Philip Nitschke Kevin Yuill Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'I Am Piano' (Peter Broderick), 'Quiet' (This Will Destroy You), 'Says' (Nils Frahm), 'She/Swimming' (Moon Ate the Dark), 'Portrait Gallery' (Luke Howard), 'They Move on Tracks of Never-ending Light' (This Will Destroy You) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Bec Fary and Jon Tjhia. Thank you Thanks to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#14 Australia's Dark Little Secret

Assisted dying has no more committed opponent than the Catholic Church. They have thrown resources, and the full weight of their political influence, against it wherever it has been proposed. That’s why the words of Sydney’s Archbishop Anthony Fisher – one of Australia’s most senior Catholic clerics, and a man who commands the ear of many politicians – are worth listening to. Archbishop Anthony Fisher, debating ethicist Peter Singer at Sydney Town Hall, 13 August 2015 — Source: YouTube Listen closely, and what you’ll hear is a masterclass in FUD: Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. The same seeds sown by opponents of assisted dying to great effect down the years. What lies inside those little seeds of FUD? In this episode – for the first time – we’re going to find out. 'I think it's almost unheard of that the elderly feel more as a burden and the opposite is true. They feel empowered by this, it strengthens them.' Joeri Veen, spokesperson for ANBO – a peak body representing the Dutch elderly – discussing the impact of euthanasia laws on ANBO’s members Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Embed player Listen Better Off Dead: interview with Tom Keneally Tom Keneally is one of Australia’s best-loved and most successful authors – and a former Catholic seminarian. Here, he discusses the belief of some Catholics that pain can purify, and that suffering redeems the soul. Know more Video: 'Q&A: Facing Death' – Australian Broadcasting Corporation, 9 November 2015 Article: 'FactCheck Q&A: Were 550 babies killed last year under Dutch euthanasia laws?', by Colleen Cartwright (reviewed by Lorana Bartels and Jan F. Koper) – The Conversation, 16 November 2015 Opinion: 'Assisted dying: Sorting the facts from the half-truths and the misleading statements', by Ross Fitzgerald – Age, 15 December 2015 Video: 'Lord Carey on Assisted Dying – July 2014' – Christina Summers, 19 August 2015 Website: Christians Supporting Choice for Voluntary Euthanasia Video: 'Euthanasia debate: Professor Peter Singer versus Archbishop Anthony Fisher OP' – Sydney University Catholic Society, 13 August 2015 In this episode Anthony Fisher Nancy Elliott Catherine Glenn Foster Nick Cooling Alex Schadenberg John Fleming Henk Reitsema Kevin Yuill Joan Hume Illya Soffer Pierre Gyselinck Bob Joondeph Joeri Veen Mie Moerenhout Cheryll Brounstein Eduard Verhagen Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Untitled #8 (Popplagith)' (Sigur Rós), 'Hold Me Through' (Luke Howard), 'I Might be Wrong' (Radiohead) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Bec Fary and Jon Tjhia. Thank you Thanks to field producer Emily Sexton, and to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#13 Now They're Killing Babies

Ray Godbold is a palliative care nurse faced with terminal cancer – but he doesn’t want to die in palliative care. Robyn and Ray Godbold — Photo: Andrew Denton Ray knows what some doctors prefer not to admit. He knows that, even in palliative care, not everything can be taken care of; that a patient’s choices about how they die are very limited; and that, sometimes, their dying involves a wildness nobody can predict. What Ray doesn’t know is that his own death will turn out to be everything he was hoping that he and his family would be spared. 'I've been there when lots of people have had terrible deaths. No matter what palliative care people say, the last 24 to 48 hours of somebody's life can be completely unexpected.' Ray Godbold Ray and Robyn Godbold's children: Tara, Ella and Rory — Photo: Andrew Denton Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Ray at Tullamarine Airport — Photo: Robyn Godbold Know more Article: 'Right to die: Dr Rodney Syme hands patient Ray Godbold life-ending medication', by Konrad Marshall – Age, 11 May 2015 Multimedia feature: 'Into the darkness', by Konrad Marshall – Age, 13 November 2014 Article: 'Dying with Dignity campaigner Ray Godbold farewelled by family', by Konrad Marshall – Age, 19 August 2015 Article: 'The right to die at home', by Chris Fotinopoulos – Saturday Paper, 5 December 2015 Transcript of testimony (PDF): 'Standing committee on legal and social issues: Inquiry into end-of-life choices', by Rory Godbold and Tara Szafraniec – Parliament of Victoria, 29 October 2015 In this episode Ray Godbold Robyn Godbold Ella Godbold Rory Godbold Tara Szafraniec (née Godbold) Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Life Story' (Ólafur Arnalds and Nils Frahm), 'Longplay' (Luke Howard), 'Familiar' (Nils Frahm), 'We're All Leaving' (Arcade Fire), 'Abandon Window' (Jon Hopkins), 'Ain't No Grave Going to Hold Me Down' (Charlie Parr), 'untitled #1 (vaka)' (Sigur Rós) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Jess Fairfax. Thank you Thanks to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#12 Velvet Ray

Associate Professor Richard Chye is the director of the Sacred Heart palliative care unit at St Vincent’s Hospital in Sydney. A gifted physician and teacher, he is also a hugely influential figure in palliative care in Australia. Apart from being a member of various state and national committees, he’s a board member of Palliative Care Australia – the peak national organisation. Responding to my request, Richard invited me to spend a week with his team to see what they do – and to discuss the subject of assisted dying. Two things stood out as I watched the doctors and nurses of palliative care go about their work: the compassion and care from everyone as they helped people to die in often complex circumstances; and just as apparent, a deep resistance to the thought of assisted dying. Exactly how deep I didn’t realise – until I sat down to speak with Richard. Shayne Higson (second left), pictured with her sisters and their mother Jan (farthest right) who died of brain cancer: 'I thought that [with] terminal sedation … there would be no suffering, but that's not right' — Photo: supplied 'Love has got many ways of operating, I think … and I believe that assisting someone to die can be a loving act.' Professor Ian Maddocks, first Chair of Palliative Care at Flinders University, and first President of the Australian and New Zealand Society for Palliative Medicine Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Know more Letter: From Ian Maddocks – The Monthly, February 2016 Article: 'Euthanasia isn’t a substitute for palliative care at the end of life', by Richard Chye – Sydney Morning Herald, 9 November 2015 Article: 'Andrew Denton: Doctors shouldn't look away when dying patients are suffering', by Andrew Denton – Sydney Morning Herald, 10 November 2015 Blog post: 'Denton lacks understanding of dying process – a social worker’s perspective', by Elissa Campbell – Palliverse, 13 November 2015 Video: 'Even the best palliative care can't always help' – Dying For Choice, 19 September 2013 In this episode Richard Chye Ian Maddocks Shayne Higson Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes '21:05' (Ólafur Arnalds and Nils Frahm), 'You Know Me Well' (Sharon Van Etten), 'The Shooting' (Nils Frahm), 'All of Me Wants All of You' (Sufjan Stevens), 'Videotape' (Radiohead) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Bec Fary. Thank you Thanks to Stanley Street Gallery, and to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#11 Whose life is it anyway?: palliative care in Australia, part 2

Speaking with doctors in Belgium, the Netherlands and Oregon, I’d learnt that in those places, palliative care and assisted dying are seen as things that go together – and assisting a patient to die may sometimes be the ultimate offer of help for those beyond the skills of even the most dedicated palliative care experts. Spencer Ratcliff had never witnessed such pain as he saw during his partner Deb's final days – pain which palliative care staff were unable to relieve: 'I said, "What are we supposed to do? Just sit and watch her scream herself to death in pain?"' — Photo: Andrew Denton Back home in Australia, the law forbids assisted dying. Without a law to protect or guide doctors and nurses, I wondered: how does palliative care here deal with those same kinds of patients? Richard Chye is the director of palliative care at St Vincent’s Hospital in Sydney. When I asked him if I could spend a week in his unit to learn what it is they do, I was upfront with him. I told him I believed there should be a law for assisted dying in Australia – not a subject often raised within their walls – and that it would be one of many things I’d like to discuss with him and his team. To my surprise, and to his credit, he agreed. By the end of that week, two things struck me about the doctors and nurses of Sacred Heart. First: their deep commitment to, and compassion towards, their patients. And second: the universal acknowledgement of how hard they found it when a patient was beyond their help. 'I think we do provide dignity and good care, and the majority of the time, symptoms are managed well. But there are occasions when a symptom isn’t controlled, or someone has a rough journey – for whatever reason, you know – and you do think about that.' Nursing unit manager Ken Webb Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Embed player Listen Better Off Dead: Interview with Alex Broom Alex Broom, Professor at Sociology at the University of NSW, spent six months embedded in a Catholic hospice. His was the first study in Australia to explore patients’ views on assisted dying. What he got was a unique insight into the gulf that exists between many patients’ expressed wish for help to die, and the response they receive. Know more Article: 'The speech on dying you were prevented from hearing', by Michael Short – Sydney Morning Herald, 26 May 2015 Article: 'OPINION: Time to act on medically assisted dying', by Brian Winship – Newcastle Herald, 19 June 2015 Blog post: 'Denton lacks understanding of dying process – a social worker’s perspective', by Elissa Campbell – Palliverse, 13 November 2015 Video: 'Even the best palliative care can't always help' – Dying For Choice, 19 September 2013 In this episode Nancy Fran Nam Therese Compton Ken Webb Philip Redelman Spencer Ratcliff Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes '23:17' (Ólafur Arnalds and Nils Frahm), 'In the Deep Shade' (The Frames), 'We're All Leaving' (Arcade Fire), 'They Move on Tracks of Never-Ending Light' (This Will Destroy You), 'Black Sands' (Bonobo), 'Petra' (Blue Dot Sessions), 'All of Me Wants All of You' (Sufjan Stevens), 'Says' (Nils Frahm) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Jon Tjhia. Thank you Thanks to Stanley Street Gallery, and to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#10 Neither hasten nor prolong death: palliative care in Australia, part 1

The success of Oregon’s Death with Dignity Act – at 18 years, the world’s longest-running law of this kind – puts two things into sharp relief. Firstly, the increasingly desperate attempts of opponents to discredit it. Secondly, the truth they don’t want you to see – that this law works, and exactly as intended. How that law came to pass in such a religiously conservative country stands as a masterclass in public policy, and one that set the template other US states have since followed. Brittany Maynard: 'I would like all Americans to have access to the same healthcare rights' — Source: YouTube The most significant of these was California, which in 2015 adopted Oregon’s law – thanks in no small part to a woman named Brittany Maynard. Brittany was just 29, and dying of brain cancer, when she left her home in California to go and live in Oregon, where the law offered her a choice about how she died. Her decision to use her dying days to campaign publicly for a similar law in California made her a household name, with her videos attracting over 16 million views on YouTube. As he signed California’s End of Life Option Act into law, Governor Jerry Brown – a Catholic – said: ‘I do not know what I would do if I were dying in prolonged and excruciating pain. I am certain, however, that it would be a comfort to be able to consider the options afforded by this bill. And I wouldn’t deny that right to others.’ 'I think we do a much better job because of this law. It’s done exactly what it’s supposed to, and more.' Leigh Dolin, former president of the Oregon Medical Association Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Embed player Listen Better Off Dead: Interview with Peg Sandeen Peg Sandeen is the executive director of the Death With Dignity National Center in Portland, Oregon. Here, she describes how Oregon’s Death with Dignity Act works, and the campaign to take it to other states in America. Know more Article: 'Twenty Years of Living with the Oregon Death with Dignity Act', by Eli Stutsman – GP Solo vol. 30 no. 4, 2013 Report: 'Oregon's Death with Dignity Act – 2014' – Oregon Public Health Division, 2015 Radio: 'California: Euthanasia' – The Law Report, ABC RN, 27 October 2015 Video: 'Brittany Maynard Legislative Testimony' – Brittany Maynard/CompassionChoices (YouTube), 31 March 2015 Article: 'Terminally Ill Woman Brittany Maynard Has Ended Her Own Life', by Nicole Weisensee Egan – People, 2 November 2014 Video: 'Brittany Maynard's mother: Help me carry out her legacy' – The Telegraph (YouTube), 22 January 2015 Article: 'California's governor has signed a bill legalising doctor-assisted dying' – Economist, 6 October 2015 In this episode Eli Stutsman Derek Humphry Leigh Dolin Kevin Yuill Alex Schadenberg Nancy Elliott Catherine Glenn Foster Katrina Hedberg Daniel E. Lee Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Haust' (Ólafur Arnalds), 'Dead Radio' (Rowland S. Howard), 'The Puritan' (This Will Destroy You), 'Petiatil Cx Htdui' (Aphex Twin), 'LSD' (ASAP Rocky), 'I Might be Wrong' (Radiohead), 'Between Stones' (Blue Dot Sessions) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Jon Tjhia. Thank you Thanks to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#9 Why should one church decide for all of us? Death with dignity in Oregon

Shortly after arriving in Belgium, I learned of ‘Laura’ – a 24-year-old woman who had sought the right to be euthanised after years of unrelieved mental suffering. Immediately, I heard alarm bells. My gut reaction? A 24-year-old who’s not terminally ill? Surely there’s a point at which a society says ‘no: you have too much life ahead of you for us to help you die’. If you’d asked me to tell you the point where it began to feel uncomfortable, this was it. After years of deep isolation, Marjorie Vangansbeke went to ULteam in pursuit of euthanasia. Instead, she came away with a diagnosis that helped her re-embrace her life — Photo: Emily Sexton The days that followed, where I talked with some of Belgium’s leading psychiatrists and physicians, were amongst the most intense I’ve ever experienced. Emotionally, I couldn’t shake the thought that this didn’t seem right. But intellectually, I wondered: is there more here than I know? To be honest, I toyed with not including this story in the podcast: it is so fraught with ambiguity and nuance that I feared it could easily be misunderstood. But two things persuaded me to continue with it. Firstly, that it was the people treating this young woman who had alerted me to her case. They wanted me to look at it – to try and understand. And secondly? A meeting I had, two hours out of Brussels, with a man whose sadness was so intense it was almost visible. The story he told me would change my understanding of the world. It led me to a question I had never considered before: what if the offer of euthanasia could actually save lives? Pierre Pol Vincke and his daughter Edith who, after 18 years of severe mental illness and many denied attempts to seek relief through euthanasia, took her own life while in a psychiatric ward — Photos: supplied 'She realised that she was already dead, and whenever she asked for help for euthanasia, the answer of the doctors was to condemn her to stay alive.' Pierre Pol Vincke Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Embed player Listen Better Off Dead: interview with Dirk De Wachter Psychiatric euthanasias are the most difficult, and in some quarters, the most disputed of all forms of assisted dying. Here, Dirk De Wachter – one of Belgium’s leading psychiatrists, and author of the best-selling Borderline Times – discusses the complexities of a practice that he nonetheless cautiously supports. Know more Video: '24 & ready to die' – Economist, 10 November 2015 Article: 'Belgian bishops, pros agree: no euthanasia for "psychological suffering"', by Jonathan Luxmoore – CatholicPhilly.com, 11 December 2015 Article: 'A commentary on "Euthanasia for psychiatric patients: ethical and legal concerns about the Belgian practice" from Claes et al.', by Lieve Thienpont and Monica Verhofstadt – BMJ Open, 5 January 2016 In this episode Marjorie Vangansbeke Lieve Thienpont Luc Proot Pierre Pol Vincke Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes '20:17' (Ólafur Arnalds and Nils Frahm), 'Tunnel' (Luke Howard), 'Familiar' (Nils Frahm), 'Dedication, Loyalty' (Nils Frahm), 'Hand, be Still' (Ólafur Arnalds), 'White Night' (Ludovico Einaudi) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Jess Fairfax. Thank you Thanks to field producer Emily Sexton, and to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#8 Darkness visible: Marjorie, Edith and Laura: Belgium, part 2

If there is an epicentre for anti-euthanasia sentiment, it’s Belgium – home to what are often described as the most liberal euthanasia laws in the world. Here, people of any age – even, in some circumstances, children – can be euthanised. Allegations are made of a euthanasia culture that has become so uncaring that the elderly are regularly despatched without their consent. The word ‘murder’ is sometimes used. Arsène Mullie speaks to Andrew Denton — Photo: Emily Sexton Tom Mortier — Photo: alexschadenberg.blogspot.com Yet for all these claims, since Belgium’s euthanasia law was introduced in 2002, public support for it remains phenomenally high (over 80%) – and there has been no procession of Belgians coming forward to complain about what the law has done to their families. Which is why Tom Mortier’s story is so powerful. Alleging the wrongful death of his mother under this law, he has put a human face to the slippery slope. Tom’s story is being used around the world as the ultimate cautionary tale about the fluidity of Belgium’s laws. There’s no doubting the pain that he feels. But is it a true reflection of a law – and a society – gone wrong? 'How can you say that you don't want to help if you're in palliative care? What do you do then with patients who want euthanasia? How can you say to a patient who suffers, "keep suffering, tomorrow it will be better"?' Arsène Mullie, retired senior palliative care physician, Flanders   Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Embed player Listen Better Off Dead: Interview with Marc Desmet No doctor comes to the question of euthanasia lightly. In Belgium – a predominantly Catholic country – questions of faith, morality, and ethics often collide. Here’s palliative care physician, and Jesuit, Marc Desmet discussing his own complex relationship with euthanasia. Know more Article: 'Attitudes towards assisted dying' – Economist, 27 June 2015 Article: 'The death treatment', by Rachel Aviv – The New Yorker, 22 June 2015 In this episode Tom Mortier Yves Desmet Arsène Mullie Alex Schadenberg Jan Bernheim Margaret Otlowski Luc Proot Kevin Yuill Jacqueline Herremans Lieve Thienpont Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'We Disappear' (Jon Hopkins), 'B1' (Ólafur Arnalds and Nils Frahm), 'A2 (Max Cooper remix)' (Nils Frahm), 'Abandon Window' (Jon Hopkins), 'Hunting Bears' (Radiohead), 'I Might be Wrong' (Radiohead), 'Against the Sky' (Harold Budd and Brian Eno), 'Hammers' (Nils Frahm), 'The Mighty Rio Grande' (This Will Destroy You) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Bec Fary. Thank you Thanks to field producer Emily Sexton, and to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#7 The killing fields of Belgium: Belgium, part 1

For those who hold out the Netherlands as a textbook case of a ‘slippery slope’, they see a law originally designed to help the terminally ill – but that has now ‘slipped’ to include those who aren’t. But the Dutch law wasn’t written to deal only with certain diseases; guided by doctors themselves, it was deliberately created for people whose suffering is ‘unbearable and untreatable’. Barbara Heetman: 'My mother had to say totally from her own brain, heart, whatever, ‘I want this."' — Photo: Emily Sexton This might include, for example, people with long-term, corrosive illnesses such as multiple sclerosis or motor neurone disease. In some circumstances, it may even include people with Alzheimer’s. But if the basis of your law is that only a mentally competent adult can request euthanasia, how do you deal with cases where that competence is unclear? Barbara Heetman’s mother, Jeanne, applied to be euthanised before losing herself in the fog of Alzheimer’s. Her request was considered by the End of Life Clinic (Levenseindekliniek) that specialises in complex euthanasia requests. The many steps Jeanne had to go through to prove she was mentally competent provide a powerful demonstration of the care with which Dutch euthanasia law is carried out – and an equally powerful rebuttal of claims of a slippery slope. Gerrit Kimsma: 'We are being transparent and I think we have a good system. We should be proud of it.' — Photo: Emily Sexton 'It is not something doctors like to do; they don’t. If you can get around euthanasia as a doctor, you will do it, because it costs you.' Mariska Koster, a Dutch doctor, describing the impact of being involved in a euthanasia death Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Embed player Listen Better Off Dead: interview with Willie Swildens Willie Swildens-Rozendaal has chaired the Netherlands’ euthanasia review committees since their inception. Here, she takes you through how they operate, and the safeguards built into the system. Know more Article: 'Attitudes towards assisted dying' – Economist, 27 June 2015 Article: 'The Last Day of Her Life', by Robin Marantz Henig – New York Times Magazine, 14 May 2015 In this episode Mariska Koster Theo Boer Steven Pleiter Gerrit Kimsma Eric van Wijlick Barbara Heetman Alex Schadenberg Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Four' (Ólafur Arnalds and Nils Frahm), 'In Utero' (subaske), 'B1' (Ólafur Arnalds and Nils Frahm), 'Me' (Nils Frahm), 'For' (Nils Frahm), 'L$D' (ASAP Rocky), 'Slow Show' (The National), 'Hands, Be Still' (Ólafur Arnalds) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta.  Thank you Thanks to field producer Emily Sexton, and to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#6 Once you start killing, you can't stop: the Netherlands, part 2

The Netherlands’ euthanasia laws are the longest-running in Europe. Surprisingly, the drive to create them didn’t come from politicians; it came from doctors. Recognising that, like doctors in many countries (including our own), they were already assisting people to die, they pushed for a law that would bring the practice into the light – protecting both them and their patients. The Hoffman sisters, interviewed in this episode — Photo: Emily Sexton In Australia, we hear lots of dark things about the slippery slope the Dutch are sliding down. Critics suggest that their euthanasia laws have spawned a system of legalised killing that is now running out of control. But what we never hear are the voices of the Dutch themselves. So I decided to go there to find out, first hand, how this system works – and if it really is out of control. After all, this is a country where euthanasia not only has support across the political spectrum and from all the major medical bodies – but also has one of the highest levels of public approval in the world. Perhaps there’s more to these laws than we’ve been told? 'It only lasted five minutes, but when I think back about it, it feels like a whole life – because we had this humour and this pure love feeling in the house. And I know for sure, and I can say with a hand on my heart, this is exactly how mother wants this.' Marian Hoffman – describing the euthanasia of her mother, Gret, who was dying of cancer Eric van Wijlick and Andrew Denton — Photo: Emily Sexton Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Embed player Listen Better Off Dead: interview with Rob Jonquière The Dutch Right To Die Organisation, known locally as the NVVE, is 160,000 members strong – bigger than any political party in the Netherlands. They are essentially the patient’s advocates, advising them about their end of life choices and arguing for their rights under the law. Listen to former NVVE chief executive (and at the time of this interview, their interim director), Rob Jonquière. Know more Article: 'The Right to Die' – The Economist, 27 June 2015 Article: 'Euthanasia on the rise in Netherlands', by Xavier Symons – BioEdge, 10 October 2015 Article: 'The Last Days of Annie Bus: A Chronicle of Dutch Euthanasia', by Laura Höflinger – Der Spiegel, 4 February 2015 In this episode Alex Schadenberg Theo Boer Henk Reitsema Susan Hoffman Marian Hoffman Eric van Wijlick Gerrit Kimsma Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'I Might be Wrong' (Radiohead), 'Life Story' (Ólafur Arnalds and Nils Frahm), 'Loftið Verður Skyndilega Kalt' (Ólafur Arnalds), 'Says' (Nils Frahm) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Camilla Hannan.  Thank you Thanks to field producer Emily Sexton, and to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#5 The keys to life and death in someone else's hands: the Netherlands, part 1

Opponents of assisted dying in Australia want to leave things as they are, because of the worrying things they claim might happen if we did have a law. But what about the worrying things that actually are happening because we don’t have one? 'They find themselves often initially charged with murder and … I don't think that society needs or requires that.' Former Victorian Director of Public Prosecutions, John Coldrey Left to right – Cathy Pryor; her mother Anne; her father Peter — Photos: Supplied It is illegal in Australia to aid or abet a suicide, no matter the circumstances. This is, rightly, so that people aren’t encouraged to take their own lives when they are deeply vulnerable, or for someone else’s personal gain. But it doesn’t take into account people like former Tasmanian nurse Cathy Pryor. In the space of six months, Cathy assisted both her grievously ill parents to die. She was charged with, and found guilty, of attempted murder and assisting a suicide. Cathy went to jail until a judge decided that both were clearly acts of compassion, and allowed her to walk free. The record shows Cathy is a convicted criminal. But should she ever have faced trial? According to former Victorian Director Of Public Prosecutions, John Coldrey, it is inappropriate that someone acting out of love should have to go through what Cathy went through. As a judge, Coldrey has himself been faced with similar crimes. He recounts his emotional decision to let Victorian man Alex Maxwell walk free after assisting his cancer-stricken wife to die. In a society when there is no law for assisted dying – but where people are being assisted to die anyway – Coldrey is just one of many who believe that our law around assisted dying needs to be reconsidered. Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Embed player Listen Better Off Dead: Interview with Bill and Stuart Godfrey In 2004, Tasmanian man Stuart Godfrey was charged with assisting his mother, Elizabeth, to die. He faced a maximum sentence of 21 years in jail and received a 12 month suspended sentence conditional on good behaviour. Stuart hasn’t spoken publicly since the day he left court. Now, he breaks his silence. Know more Research sources: Do Australian Doctors Assist Patients to Die? Article: 'Nurse set to appeal over conviction', by Maria Rae – The Examiner, 20 December 2005 Article: 'Assisted suicide case prompts calls for euthanasia law review' – ABC News, 20 December 2005 Article: 'Police question Nagambie GP over "lethal dose" to help patient die', by Richard Baker and Nick McKenzie – The Age, 18 December 2015 Article: 'Having a choice about how and when my mum died would have provided her with comfort and peace', by Rachel Friend – Daily Telegraph, 15 November 2015 Article: 'Dear Mum, sorry I didn't kill you', by Tracey Spicer – Sydney Morning Herald, 13 June 2013 Video: 'Dangers of Legalized Euthanasia? - Tony Abbott' – FORA.tv, 6 April 2009 Video: 'IQ2 Debate: Should Euthanasia Be Legalized?' – FORA.tv, 2 March 2009 In this episode Cathy Pryor John Coldrey Coral Levett Rodney Syme Margaret Otlowski Marshall Perron Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Hold Me Through' (Luke Howard), 'The Sinking Belle (Blue Sheep)' (Sunn O))) and Boris), 'Hand, Be Still' (Olafur Arnalds), 'Dysnomia' (Dawn of Midi), 'We (Too) Shall Rest' (Olafur Arnalds), 'Burial on the Presidio Banks' (This Will Destroy You), 'I Might Be Wrong' (Radiohead), 'Weatherman Accountable' (Big Noble), 'Videotape' (Radiohead) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Jon Tjhia. Thank you Thank you to Stanley Street Gallery in Sydney. Thanks also to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#4 It can never be perfect, so why try and improve it?

According to Canadian anti-euthanasia campaigner Alex Schadenberg, Melbourne doctor Rodney Syme is a threat to society: a ‘cowboy’ and ‘the worst of the worst’. Why? Because for over a decade now, Syme has been publicly assisting terminally and chronically ill patients to die – despite the threat of jail for doing so. How did a respectable 80-year-old urologist come to be a law-breaking cowboy? Melbourne urologist Rodney Syme — Photo: supplied 'I thought: what is ethical about me being able to end my own suffering but my patients have to go on?' Rodney Syme Sandra Morris and Albert Leonzini, both featured in this episode — Photo: Emily Sexton It began 40 years ago, with a patient of his who was dying of kidney cancer. Her name was Betty. Syme could hear her screams from the foyer of the hospital. He didn’t know how to help her – but his conscience was pricked. Syme knew that, as a doctor, if he were in the same kind of pain, he could find drugs – or help from other doctors – that would mean he didn’t have to suffer like Betty. He began to wonder: why should he have access to this help, but not his patients? Over the last two decades, Rodney Syme estimates that he’s helped more than 100 people to die. Assisting a suicide carries a maximum five-year jail term in Victoria. But, despite publicly challenging the police to charge him, no charges have yet been laid. In late 2015, on national television, Syme admitted that he had helped Point Lonsdale man Steve Guest to die. He continues to provoke the law in the hope that a new and more compassionate one can be written: one that allows people with unbearable and untreatable suffering to request assistance to die. Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Embed player Listen Better Off Dead: Interview with Sandra Morris Through Rodney Syme, Albert Leonzini – dying of motor neurone disease – has obtained the lethal, illegal drug Nembutal, which offers him the opportunity to be in control of how he dies. But for all the peace of mind it offers, it still takes great courage to decide to use it. Albert’s partner of 40 years, Sandra Morris, tells what happened next. Know more Audio: Steve Guest calls Jon Faine on 774 ABC Melbourne in 2005 Article: 'The speech on dying you were prevented from hearing', by Michael Short (with a transcript of Rodney Syme's speech) – The Age, 26 May 2015 In this episode Alex Schadenberg Rodney Syme Albert Leonzini Sandra Morris Catherine Glenn Foster Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Says' (Nils Frahm), 'Abandon Window' (Jon Hopkins), 'You Know Me Well' (Sharon Van Etten), 'Remedios The Beauty' (Oren Ambarchi), 'Fall Out' (Mount Kimbie), 'Dissolved Girl' (Massive Attack), 'John My Beloved' (Sufjan Stevens) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Thank you Thank you to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox.

#3 The 80-year-old outlaw

Andrew Denton investigates the stories, moral arguments and individuals woven into discussions about why good people are dying bad deaths in Australia - because there is no law to help them.

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Better Off Dead

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