A few weeks ago, I was back in New York City for the first time since 2019. It was great—I saw coworkers in person, and I had lunch at one of my old spots, the Waverly Diner, with actor J. Smith-Cameron. She's best known for playing no-nonsense general counsel Gerri on Succession, but J. has had a long career as a stage actress in New York, on- and off-Broadway. She's also a neighborhood mainstay in the West Village, and over omelets and egg creams, she and I talked about the many phases of her life she’s spent there, getting ready to send her only daughter off to college abroad this fall, and how acting has taught her to slow down and observe the world going by, one thing at a time—a skill she says was invaluable during the pandemic.

Death, Sex & Money

Succession's J. Smith-Cameron On Old Haunts and New Normals

Three years into Amanda* and Sam*'s marriage, the couple found out that they were unexpectedly pregnant...with twins. Amanda says she took on the lion's share of the work at home while also juggling a full-time job that was paying most of their bills. "I was angry with him for not knowing how to help me," Amanda says about Sam. When Sam was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma while the kids were still toddlers, she says that neither one of them gave it the full attention it deserved.  "It certainly didn't change the things it should've changed," Amanda said. "Starting with a will would have been nice." Sam didn't exhibit many physical symptoms at first, but mentally, he started to turn inward after his diagnosis. "He went to this place of living his life in secret," Amanda said. "And not sharing anything about how it was feeling or what he was doing with me." Then, the cancer spread to his spinal column and brain. He was admitted to the hospital and quickly lost consciousness. That's when Amanda discovered, among other secrets, that her husband had been having an affair. She planned to confront Sam when he woke up, but he never did. Amanda was left with a lot of anger—and, as it turned out, money problems—to process. But she had to keep most of it to herself. "My husband was really very well-liked," she explained. "You've got to be this plate for everybody else's feelings about your dead husband." *Names changed 

Dead People Don't Have Any Secrets

Sometimes the path to parenthood isn’t a straight line. What happens when you hit speed bumps on the road to having kids? Earlier this year, I asked you about what happened when you realized becoming a parent would be more difficult than you expected. We heard from those of you who’ve gone through fertility treatments like IUI and IVF. We heard from people in queer relationships, people who chose to become a single parent, and people who ended up adopting. And we also heard from those of you who decided that the money, physical toll, and the heartbreak wasn’t worth it. "The gynecologist said to me, 'If you want this, let me know and we’ll hit it hard,'" a listener named Eva told us, after going through a miscarriage. "And I just thought, 'Do you want to hit it hard? Do you want to - do you want this enough?'" Today, your stories about infertility, and managing your expectations through it all.

Your Infertility Stories Have Many Different Endings

When a listener named Chloe was in college, she says she was sexually assaulted at a party by a former classmate. She filed a police report, but her classmate was never charged with a crime. He left town. And then, ten years went by. In that time, Chloe says her relationships with friends and family were damaged—she says her mom blamed her for the assault, and her friends seemed to not believe her, or care very much. Chloe eventually connected with other sexual assault survivors, and began her career as an artist. And she started speaking out about what had happened to her, including on social media—which led to an opportunity for Chloe to speak directly to the man who she says raped her. "I tried all these other avenues to get closure for myself, including reporting this to the police," Chloe says. "And this felt like kind of crafting closure for myself."  Find a list of resources for sexual assault survivors here.    

"You Should Be Carrying This. Not Me."

Sister Josephine Garrett grew up Baptist and worked her way up the corporate ladder—eventually becoming a vice president at Bank of America, where she managed a few hundred employees. But after converting to Catholicism in her mid-20s, the idea of becoming a nun popped into her head, and she couldn't leave it behind.  This episode first aired in 2018. Watch Anna's update with Sister Josephine from earlier this year on Instagram.  Sister Josephine Garrett, on the day she took her first vows. (Sister Josephine Garrett) 

When A Banker Became A Nun

We recently asked you to tell us about the decisions you're struggling to make right now. There have been so many choices to make and risks to weigh lately, and after almost 18 months into this pandemic, many of us are feeling decision fatigue. So we decided to put your decisions to a panel of friends and experts: author and Emory University professor Tayari Jones, writer and ¡Hola Papi! columnist John Paul Brammer, and Tara Ilsley, a public health worker at Duke University Hospital in Durham, North Carolina. They shared their advice for listeners weighing big moves, going back to school, caretaking, and more.

Decision Fatigue Is Real. We Called For Backup.

In Cora and Garrett's final session with financial therapist Amanda Clayman, they talk about soon becoming parents, and their recent experience consulting a financial advisor while navigating Garrett’s gambling addiction—which is still a sensitive subject for him. "I guess I would have preferred that we didn't have to mention it," Garrett says. "But it's kind of like the elephant in the room a little bit with coming up with a system."  And while the financial advisor helped them feel more confident about paying off their debt, Cora and Garrett say they still are having trouble seeing eye to eye about their finances. Garrett says he's found it difficult to be excited about paying off some of their credit cards, while Cora says she wants to celebrate victories as they come. "This is the thing that is different between straight financial advice and financial therapy," Amanda says. "There may need to be a period of digging into the mess, if you will, of what stands between where you are today and where it is that you'd like to go. It's not as simple as, here's the perfect sort of way to organize this. Now, just go do it."  To hear more of Amanda, check out the NPR podcast Life Kit. In their most recent episode, Amanda goes over some helpful principles of financial intimacy for couples—things she thinks about when counseling couples towards healthy financial behaviors, and tips you can use in your own relationship. It’s available wherever you listen, and at npr.org/lifekit.

Financial Therapy: A Baby, And A Plan

Financial therapist Amanda Clayman gave a couple we're calling Cora and Garrett an assignment at the end of their first session—talk together about your strengths and weaknesses when it comes to money. But talking together about finances has always been a source of conflict in Cora and Garrett's relationship, and this time was no exception. Before Garrett became addicted to gambling, Cora and Garrett mostly kept their money separate and avoided talking together about it. But now that Cora has taken over their family's finances, including Garrett's paychecks, it's forced a lot of conversation about their money styles—which, it turns out, are very different. "I've always seen you as more frivolous," Cora tells Garrett. "Everything that was left over that wasn't going into savings...it's fair game," Garrett says. "That's kind of the way I approached it."  Cora and Garrett also talk together about the barriers currently between them—Garrett's resentment about now not having much control over his earnings, and Cora's distrust stemming from Garrett's deception about money. And they talk with Amanda about how to overcome the emotional distance between them.  Find all of our past Financial Therapy episodes here. If you or a loved one is in crisis, please reach out to the Crisis Text Line (Text TALK to 741741) or the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK to talk to someone who can help. If you're struggling with a gambling problem, call the National Problem Gambling Helpline at 1-800-522-4700, or get peer support at gamtalk.org. And for more resources about dealing with debt, click here. 

Financial Therapy: Struggling To Trust Again

We first heard from a listener we're calling Cora late last year. "My husband and I recently hit a pretty intense rough patch regarding our financial life, mental health, and the trust in our relationship in general," she wrote in an email to us. "It has brought about a lot of important growth for both of us, but at great expense...literally and figuratively."  Cora and her husband, who we're calling Garrett, went through a lot in 2020. Garrett, who is a construction worker, was laid off multiple times. He started secretly online gambling. And when his debt became overwhelming, he tried to kill himself.  Now, Cora and Garrett are trying to put the pieces of their relationship and their finances back in order. And while they've had access to mental health treatment and addiction recovery groups—they haven't found much help when it comes to talking together about money, and all of the emotions and history wrapped up in it. Listen in to Cora and Garrett's sessions with financial therapist Amanda Clayman, as she helps them communicate better around money, understand their own financial tendencies, desires and fears, and forge a path forward. Find all of our past Financial Therapy episodes here. If you or a loved one is in crisis, please reach out to the Crisis Text Line (Text TALK to 741741) or the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK to talk to someone who can help. If you're struggling with a gambling problem, call the National Problem Gambling Helpline at 1-800-522-4700, or get peer support at gamtalk.org. And for more resources about dealing with debt, click here. 

Financial Therapy: A Secret Gambling Addiction

Radiolab producer Rachael Cusick's mother died when Rachael was six years old. Her grandmother, Marilyn Ryland, stepped in as a parental figure for Rachael, and while they didn't talk directly about grief together, Marilyn says, "it was always in the room."  I talked with Rachael and Marilyn together, in this special collaboration with Radiolab. For the past year, Rachael has been reporting a piece for Radiolab about psychiatrist Elisabeth Kübler-Ross and her "five stages of grief"—a model of neat progression through loss that Rachael quickly grew frustrated with when she was younger. In "The Queen of Dying," Rachael's new Radiolab episode, we learn about how those stages actually came about, and about the woman who created them. As Rachael was working on that piece, she also learned that her grandmother, Marilyn, had been diagnosed with cancer. I talk to Rachael and Marilyn together about losing Rachael's mom, and about the stages of grief—and dying. Listen to Rachael's companion Radiolab episode about the story and legacy of Elisabeth Kübler-Ross here. And read a Modern Love essay that Rachael wrote for The New York Times about her relationship with her grandmother, and loss, here. 

When Grief Doesn't Move In Stages

For a long time, writer and podcaster Doree Shafrir didn’t know if she wanted kids. “It wasn’t a future that I fantasized about or necessarily saw myself doing,” she told me. But when Doree entered her mid-30s, she started to feel left behind as everyone around her was reaching major life milestones that she wasn't: getting married, having children, buying a home. It seemed impossible to catch up, feelings she explores in her new memoir, Thanks for Waiting: The Joy (& Weirdness) of Being a Late Bloomer. Doree did get married at 38, and realized she wanted kids. She and her husband, Matt, tried to get pregnant on their own for six months, but after seeing a specialist learned that IVF (in vitro fertilization) would be their best option to become parents. But the process presented new challenges at every turn—surgeries, failed embryo transfers, "miracle baby stories," and growing financial debt. Doree and I talk about how she dealt with these hurdles, why the couple chose to share their journey publicly on their podcast “Matt and Doree’s Eggcellent Adventure,” and whether or not they'll pursue having a second child.

Doree Shafrir On The Out Of Control IVF Train

In 2010, Johnny Solomon's band, Communist Daughter, was on the rise. But behind the scenes, Johnny was struggling—he was drinking heavily, and abusing meth to the tune of $600 a week. "People see it from the outside, but it's impossible to explain from the inside of what it does to your soul," he told me about his addiction. "I did really terrible things to the people I loved." When Johnny realized it was time to get help, he called one of the people he loved most—his mom, Nancy. She paid for him to go to rehab, which helped him get clean and gave him a diagnosis of bipolar disorder.  After Johnny got sober and went on medication, his band regrouped and continued touring and putting out albums. But then, a few years later, it was Nancy who needed help, as her health declined due to a degenerative nerve disease. So Johnny and his wife—and bandmate—Molly packed up their life in Minnesota and moved in with Nancy and her husband in San Diego. It's a very different life from the one they were imagining at this point in their marriage, when they were hoping to start a family. And caring for Nancy has meant that their music careers have been put mostly on hold. But Johnny says there are aspects of the change that feel healthy, especially given the difficulties he experienced trying to stay sober in a touring musician's lifestyle. "I love routine," he told me. "I love it, because when things get out of control then I start to really lose control." I went to their shared home to talk with Johnny, Molly and Nancy about what their life together looks like now—and what's been hard about building it. This episode first aired in 2018. Johnny and Molly Solomon in the backyard of the house they share with Johnny's mom Nancy and her husband. (Anna Sale) Check out our podcast playlist roundup of recent audio recommendations from our newsletter here. And if you're not already subscribed to our newsletter, sign up! Every Wednesday we send out podcast listening recommendations, fascinating letters from our inbox and updates from the show. Sign up at deathsexmoney.org.

When Indie Rockers Become Full-Time Caregivers

This week, I speak with Miguel Llapa, who is 18 and just graduating from high school. Miguel is a percussionist, and a soon-to-be college student, with congenital scoliosis — an abnormality of the spine which affects his lung capacity. “As I got older, I started to feel more dependent when I wanted to be more independent,” Miguel said. “Because I was always in and out of the hospital, I always had someone with me. I always had someone accompany me, which I love. But after some time, you know, I started to grow, to feel like I wanted to test things out on my own.” Miguel, alongside his mom, talks about his excitement about heading off to college and living independently for the first time—and his mom shares what's making her feel nervous about it.

A Teen Musician Is Ready For His Solo. His Mom Is Not.

Hard conversations often spark a change. Whether they shift something in a relationship, or a situation, or inside you, there is often a definitive "before" and "after" a hard conversation.  When we asked you to tell us about the hardest conversations you've ever had, you told us about talking with kids about a death. Telling family that you've fallen in love with a man in prison. Breaking up with a longtime friend. Sometimes the conversations resulted in resolution, and relief. Other times, they left you feeling like there was a lot more to be said.  You also told us about hard conversations you haven't yet had—but know that you need to. And we're looking for even more stories like this, for an upcoming series we're working on. If you've got a hard conversation that you've been waiting to have, and need a push to do it, send a voice memo to deathsexmoney@wnyc.org. 

"The Lying Stops Now": Your Hardest Conversations

When Michelle Zauner of the indie band Japanese Breakfast returned home to Eugene, Oregon, to take care of her mother in 2014, she wasn’t prepared for what life would be like as a caregiver. Her mother, whom she often clashed with growing up, had been diagnosed with late-stage gastrointestinal cancer, and Michelle struggled to fulfill what she believed her obligations were as an only child. “I did not have any idea of what I was getting into or what death looked like and what illness looked like,” Michelle told me, and writes about in a new book called Crying in H Mart. “I felt like needed to write about these things, in some sense, to like, warn people,” she told me.  Since Michelle’s mom died, her band has released three albums—two that were focused on grief and loss, and the latest, which is called Jubilee. I talk with Michelle about the things that are making her happy today—and about why she recently tweeted that all of her joy “is rooted in vengeance.” Listen to Japanese Breakfast's latest album, Jubilee, here, and check out her Crying in H Mart Spotify playlist here.

Michelle Zauner's Joy Is Rooted In Vengeance

Anna Sale explores the big questions and hard choices that are often left out of polite conversation.

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Death, Sex & Money

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