Today on the podcast we have Jocelyn Wilson winemaker and owner of Hogan Wines, based in the Banhoek area of Stellenbosch. I chatted to Jos a couple of months ago, ahead of the release of her new vintages later this month. But the conversation – and it really is a conversation rather than an interview – isn’t really about the new wines. I really wanted to get Jossie’s story on record – she is one of the producers in South Africa that has been termed “The New Wave”. Her journey to this point is an interesting story and I wanted to explore that with her in a long format conversation. If you are interested to dive deeper into the Hogan Wines do not despair, we spend the second half of the podcast chatting fairly comprehensively about the wines she produces. We also touch on a range of other topics as we went through. Little caveat here – we distribute Hogan Wines in South Africa – but this just means that we love Jos, and all that she does! Proper legend she is. Thank you for listening – and I give you Jocelyn Wilson…

Ex Animo Wine Co.

Jocelyn Wilson of HOGAN WINES

Today on the podcast we have James Downes, farmer, viticulturist and part owner with his brother Stuart, of Dunman Way Farm, home of Shannon Vineyards in Elgin. In short, James is a total weapon. His knowledge of the terroir of his farm, and of Elgin in general is extremely engaging and informative. Combine this with an inquisitive mind, a sharp intellect, a thirst for learning and desire to be better at what he does tomorrow than he is today, and the result is one of the most formidable people in the wine industry in South Africa. As you will hear, James’ natural conversational style tends to focus on ideas and questioning – this resulted in the chat touching on a wide range of subjects. You can’t help but be taken along with his enthusiasm and expertise. Please enjoy my conversation with the informative, engaging and humble, James Downes….

James Downes, Shannon Vineyards

Today on the podcast we have Peter-Allan Finlayson, winemaker and co-owner of the very successful Crystallum label, and now winemaker of his father-in-law’s Gabriëlskloof wines – both based in Bot River. I first met Peter-Allan, or as most people know him, Fin, when he was pouring his wine at the same small booth as Chris and Suzaan Alheit at Cape Wine 2012. He was the first “young gun” winemaker from South Africa that I had come across that was specialising in Chardonnay and Pinot Noir. Most others were using Chenin Blanc and Syrah. One of the main purposes of this podcast is to produce a document of record, and not to talk about a single release too much, it is worth noting that this conversation took place in July 2020, almost exactly one year ago. Fin had just released his 2019 Crystallum wines, so that is the vintage we reference mostly throughout this episode. As you will hear, Fin and I are quite good friends, so we didn’t always keep it strictly professional throughout this conversation, and there are some nice little verbal jabs at each other along the way. I wanted to chat to Peter-Allan for a few reasons: 1) Because he makes very good wine, 2) As already mentioned, because he is one of the few of the younger generation focusing on Burgundian varieties, and 3) Because he has a different perspective than many of his contemporaries in the way he approaches the business of wine. I give you Peter-Allan Finlayson…

Peter-Allan Finlayson, Crystallum & Gabriëlskloof

Today on the podcast, we have a bit of a change – instead of me talking to a guest, this time I was in the guest’s seat of The Vincast podcast based in Melbourne, hosted by The Intrepid Wino – a.k.a. James Scarcebrook, and is all about wine, wine culture and wine people. Each episode he chats with someone from a different field in the wine industry, to gain some insight into their experiences, philosophies, practices and personality as it relates to wine and what they do. Sound familiar? James had asked me on previously, but we had never managed to make our diaries match up while I had been in Melbourne on my (until now) annual trips. Very glad we finally managed to make it happen. We talk about my journey in wine that started with a glass of Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc while working for the Victorian government in the late nighties, and we race through the next twenty plus years to how I ended up in Cape Town today. A few listeners have been asking for an episode on my story, so I am glad to be able to oblige. A big thank you to James for the conversation – you can find his podcast at intrepidwino.com/the-vincast/ and if you have an interest in the Australian wine scene I highly suggest you check it out. I give you my story so far…

David Clarke from Ex Animo Wine Co. via The Vincast

Today on the podcast we have Duncan Savage – owner and winemaker of Savage Wines. He made his name through the first decade or so of the 2000s as the winemaker of Cape Point Vineyards. Duncan’s production facility (originally set up by Tim Martin) is in the industrial Cape Town suburb of Salt River – I interviewed him there, in the now vacant warehouse above his winery. Note: there is an echo and some street noise, but not too much. Duncan is one of the “good guys” of the industry, very jovial and easy going. I don’t think there are many people with anything negative to say about him, other than his wines sell out too quickly. As you will hear, Duncan has been making wines almost 20 years, and has built one of the stronger brands of the South African “new wave” – I wanted to talk to Duncan about this journey and about his new 2019 wines about to be released. It is a long one, as Duncan is a great story-teller and has some very well thought out insights into wine making, marketing and life in general. Strap yourselves in, I give you Duncan Savage…

Duncan Savage, Savage Wines

Today on the podcast we have Johan Malan, Director of Wine at the historic Simonsig Estate in Stellenbosch. As you will hear in this episode, Johan is very easy to talk to, humble, and has a rather infections giggle. While he is justifiably proud of what Simonsig has achieved over the years, he is very far from resting on his laurels – as exhibited by The Grapesmith wines we reference. Simonsig is one of the grand old names in Stellenbosch whose reputation was set in motion by Johan’s father, Frans. An incredibly important person in the development of Stellenbosch as a premium wine area, the Estate system, and wine tourism in South Africa. I asked Johan on the podcast because both Cathy van Zyl MW and Michael Fridjhon on previous podcasts referenced Simonsig’s (and especially Frans’) work in setting up the Stellenbosch Wine Route, the first of its kind in South Africa, and helped pave the way for quality-minded producers that has eventually led to the fine wine revolution the country has experienced over the last 10-15 years. While Simonsig is probably best known to most domestic wine consumers as the pioneers of traditional method sparkling wine with their wine Kaapse Vonkel, they also produce important Chenin Blanc and Pinotage wines. I think this is one of the most important podcast episodes I have done so far. Simonsig may no longer command the column inches it once did, but it is and will forever remain one of the most important wine Estates in South Africa. Frans and Johan Malan have positively affected the reputation of Stellenbosch, helping shift the focus from the volume producers based in Paarl. Virtually every single top wine producer in South Africa today has the Malan’s of Simonsig to thank for the route to market they helped envision, create and curate from the 1970s to the 1990s. I give you Johan Malan…

Johan Malan - Simonsig

Today on the podcast we have Kurt Moore, CEO of SALBA – the South African Liquor Brand owners Association. According to their website, their sole objective is to represent their members, who are manufacturers and distributors of liquor products in the liquor industry of South Africa, on issues of common interest. Their members include an extensive list of heavy-hitting liquor industry stalwarts: DGB, Meridian, Vinimark, Distell, Pernod Ricard, Diageo, Stellenbosch Vineyards, KWV, Origin, Spier - - - the list goes on. When I contacted Kurt and asked him to be on the podcast, he needed very little convincing. We quickly arranged a date and time (there was only a very short window of time in which to conduct this interview) and I sent him a list of questions that would be asked. These questions were primarily concerned with SALBA’s current and future responses to the government’s current regulations around the sale and movement of liquor. The narrative in all previous communications I had seen from SALBA on this issue had been one of wishing to partner with government - wanting to work with government. In their latest press release, they stated that they had not been contacted or consulted by government in the run up to the latest regulations coming into effect, nor had any of SALBA’s requests for an audience or communications from government been responded to. I wanted to know at what point would their plan of action change. When does litigation or protest become more effective options?

Kurt Moore, CEO SALBA

Today on the podcast we have Higgo Jacobs. Higgo has been a key figure in the South African wine industry for a decade. A certified sommelier, he was part of the founding board of the South African Sommelier Association (SASA). He was also the Chairperson for SASA for 4 years, standing down in early 2019. Higgo no longer works as a sommelier and has been a consultant for hire to the industry for a decade. In that time he has done work for various restaurants, WOSA (the export lobby group of the South African wine industry), the Nederburg Auction, numerous international publications and journalists, he also is one of South Africa’s representative palates at the Decanter World Wine Awards. If you’ve ever been to South Africa on official wine business, you’ve probably met Higgo. Most recently he has been instrumental (along with Roland Peens of Wine Cellar) in trying to create a formal secondary market for wine in South Africa. They have been working with auction house Strauss & Co, who specialise in art, to achieve this. A week or two prior to our chat the live auction held on the Strauss & Co yielded some amazing results with 6 bottles of the Kanonkop Paul Sauer 2015 vintage selling for just over R5,000 a bottle. The retail price on release in 2018 was R375 per bottle. I wanted to chat to Higgo about his time at SASA – and his opinion on what next for the sommelier profession in South Africa – and the recent auction result and to find out a bit more about the inner mechanics of how the auctions are put together. During the podcast, you will notice that Higgo calls me “Davey”, and is the only person outside my immediate family to do so. Higgo and I are friends, we served for 6 years on the board of SASA, and have a lot of respect for each other. It is always great chatting to him. This was recorded late in May 2020 – when we were still in hard lockdown, so I had to rely on our good friend Zoom. Unfortunately it kept cutting out and we had to re-record some sections more than once. This, combined with some pretty average interviewing ability from yours truly resulted in a raw recording that jumped around a lot. I apologise – I have done the best I can to edit it to make it play as it would have occurred had the technology and skills been up to standard. As with all of these home recordings, there is some background noise. If you concentrate, you can hear Higgo’s young daughter, Sadie in some parts. Even though there were some challenges in this episode, I believe it to be well worth listening to. Higgo is a unique voice in the South African wine industry and brings fresh insights to many parts of it. I give you Higgo Jacobs…

Higgo Jacobs

A (very) quick update with regards to South Africa entering into prohibition 2.0. More soon...

Prohibition 2.0

Today on the podcast we have Michael Fridjhon. With his wine career now entering its sixth decade, Michael is one of the true doyens of the South African wine industry. His current interests are the Reciprocal Wine Company, an importer and retailer of fine wines; WineX, the biggest wine show in South Africa; the Old Mutual Trophy, one of the key wine competitions in South Africa; he writes on wine for numerous publications around the globe and has been the international voice of South African wine for a generation. Listening to Michael’s experiences during the last 50 or so years was very beneficial for me. He references some key moments in South African history: the Sharpeville massacre of 1960 where police shot dead 60 protesters, injuring many more; the Rivonia Trial of 1963-64 which resulted in the life sentences of Nelson Mandala and others who were convicted of sabotage; and then President P. W. Botha’s Rubicon speech of 1985 which doubled down on the Governments Apartheid policies and led to the collapse of the Rand. Michael is not a historian, and his recollections of these events are drawn from his own experiences. We had a fascinating chat, and I feel that we only scratched the surface of his knowledge and experience. While I wouldn’t go as far as to say that Michael is a controversial figure, he certainly holds unpopular opinions at times. These are usually very well-thought-out positions, whether you agree with them or not, so it makes for good conversation. Unfortunately, the medium we are using to record these podcasts, Zoom, for all its benefits, makes a fast-paced, interactive discussion very difficult. We talk across each other on the discussion about brands and pricing a little bit, and I’d like to explore that with him in more detail at a later date. Perhaps when we can meet face-to-face. In the meantime, I give you Michael Fridjhon….

50 Years of South African Wine with Michael Fridjhon

Today on the podcast we have Andrés Rosberg, President of the Association Sommelliere Internationale (ASI). The ASI runs many activities, the most notable being the Best Sommelier of the World contest – and all of the associated regional competitions. Andrés is from Argentina and a such is the first President of the ASI to come from the southern hemisphere. I first met Andrés in 2019 while he was on a trip to South Africa by the ASI Technical Committee to plan that year’s best sommelier of the world competition. Andrés and I chat on many subjects including a little bit of his history in the wine industry, his time with the Argentinian Sommelier Association, his time so far in the ASI, his experiences in South Africa last year, the parallels he sees between Argentinian and South African wine industries and many other topics. From my point of view, as President, he has modernised the ASI somewhat, broadened their horizons and as a result the ASI is much less-Eurocentric, which is a great thing. Andrés is very easy to talk to and it was a very interesting conversation for me, I hope you enjoy it. I give you Andrés Rosberg…

Andrés Rosberg, President Association de la Sommelliere Internationale

Today on the podcast we have Maho Tamai of Société Raffiné, a Japanese-based wine importer, specialising in South Africa. Maho is based in Cape Town as Raffiné’s local representative and acts as a producer liaison. Japan has quickly become an important market for South African wine over the last few years and this is what I wanted to talk to him about. We discuss how the business first entered into South African wine and how they grew to having 33 agencies in the space of a few years. Maho is an active member of the wine community here in Cape Town, a proper gentleman and deeply committed to South African wine. We are lucky to have him here. I give you Maho-san…

Maho Tamai, Société Raffiné

Today on the podcast we have Master of Wine, Cathy van Zyl. Cathy is the Associate Editor Platter’s Wine Guide, the most comprehensive wine guide on South African wine, which is produced annually. We originally planned to have her husband Philip on this episode also, who is the Editor of Platter’s, but he was feeling ill. I will have him on at a later date. Cathy is an energetic cheerleader for the South African wine industry, and is fiercely independent in her opinions and actions. You don’t become a Master of Wine without a high level of nuanced knowledge of the world of wine and this is what I wanted to talk to her about – where she sees South Africa sitting in the world of wine, and where we can improve. Cathy and I are good friends, so this episode is perhaps a little more casual than some of the others on this podcast. I think this has helped our discussion in tackling some of the topics we talk about, but I’ll leave that up to you, dear listener, to decide. Cathy is an open-minded person who has the respect of the entire South African wine industry, not bad for someone who passed the Master of Wine on a bet. She also has the same haircut as Viper from the original Top Gun. I give you Cathy van Zyl MW…

Cathy van Zyl MW

Today on the podcast we have Marc Kent, the Managing Partner and Technical Director of Boekenhoutskloof in Franschhoek. Boekenhoutskloof is one of the huge success stories of the new South Africa – it not only has the Boekenhoutskloof range, it also has Wolftrap, Porcupine Ridge, Porseleinberg and there is a new project in the Hemel-en-Aarde. I would think that virtually everyone interested in South African wine would have had at least some contact with one of these brands in the last 20 years. Marc is a fascinating guy, an original thinker, deeply influenced by the late Tim Rands (of Vinimark), and few people know, was one of the original instigators of the Swartland Revolution. By his own admission, Marc is much more interested in the business of wine than farming and making it. This was mainly what I wanted to speak to him about: how Boekenhoutskloof got started, how he got involved, and how he expanded the business to where it is today. We also touch on other subjects like fine wine post-COVID19, thoughts on brand South Africa and his love of Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc. I give you Marc Kent…

Marc Kent, Boekenhoutskloof

Today on the podcast we have Dom Nocerino of Vinifera Imports, based in New York. A bit of a change of pace for the podcast today. Dom isn't professionally involved with South African wine, but he has been involved with wine his whole life as his family has been importing Italian wine into the US since the 1970s. As you will hear Dom is an articulate, knowledgeable wine lover – and can also grow a mean moustache – check out our Instagram feed for a photo of Dom holding a bottle of Cartology and sporting an excellent soup strainer. We chat about selling wine to trade, the importance (or not) of journalist points, what has been happening in Italian wine over the last 5-10 years including the issue of climate change (there is some super interesting info on Italian wine in this podcast if that is your thing), Dom's experiences in South Africa including a hilarious story about our mutual friend Peter-Allan Finlayson and more. A bit of fun for a Friday. :) I give you Dom Nocerino…

Dom Nocerino, Vinifera Imports

Ex Animo Wine Co. is a wine distributor based in Cape Town. We are all about flavour, integrity, and having a good time.

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Ex Animo Wine Co.

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