Fab after Fifty - Leading the Pro-Age Conversation

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Ceri Wheeldon of Fab after Fifty  interviews mind and body expert Susan Scott , author of the book Life Force. In this episode Susan talks about why we feel constantly tired The role technology plays in ongoing fatigue How we can best avoid stress How we can create more energy How to create a more positive mindset The role of diet and exercise in creating more energy and balance in life 3 top tips to improve energy ----more---- Read Full Transcript: Full episode transcript : Interview with Mind and Body Expert Susan Scott on How to Have More Energy and Improve your Work Life Balance [00:00:04] I'm Ceri Wheeldon. Welcome to the Fab after Fifty podcast. Leading the pro age conversation, talking about all things life after 50.   [00:00:17] Hello and welcome to this week's podcast. And I'm delighted to have with me today Susan Scott. Now, Susan Scott is a mind and body expert, a professionally trained nutritionist and psychologist, and she's also the author of two best selling books, How to Prevent Burnout and How to Have an Outstanding Career. And her latest book is called Life Force. Hello, Susan. Welcome to Fab after  50. Hello, Ceri. And thank you for asking me to join you now. Why Life Force? I know this your latest book. You sent me notes through ahead of today's conversation. I was absolutely astounded to read that one in five people in the UK reportedly feel tired all of the time. Why is that?   [00:00:59] I know. I know. I mean, it's quite shocking. And actually, I'd even suggest it's more than that. It's I think it's an awful lot about the life that we're living at the moment. We're living in this world and always on the pace of life is growing at a phenomenal rate. We're working longer hours. We're cutting back on recreation time. More importantly, we're cutting back on me time because we just want to keep doing everything. And it's taking its toll now.   [00:01:28] Does Technology play a part in that? I mean, I know that when I was certainly I would say at the peak of my headhunting career, we weren't expected to be on 24/7. If I travelled it on the train. That was my thinking time. Whereas now I'm on the train, I'm there with my smartphone catching up on social media and emails on the go. So you never really switch off.   [00:01:53] But the thing about technology now is it's broken down all the boundaries. So one of the things people often ask me or my workshops is how do I get my work life balance? And actually, I'd say it doesn't even exist anymore. It's about life balance because technology means we're accessible all the time. But so is work accessible all the time. So we keep dipping in and out. I mean, I would get a train at 7:00 in the morning into London. And people will be on that train on their laptops, working, trying to get on top of it. And they're doing the same on the way home. So, in fact, rather than saying, oh, they're spending eight, nine hours of work, they're spending more like ten, eleven hours at work, actually. So it is it is contributing significantly to this feeling tired all the time. And what's exacerbating that is the stress that's being built up around it. The chronic stress of actually dealing with it for your body it's almost like being in constant fight or flight. And that's exhausting.   [00:02:55] And I don't know about, you know, the people that you have coming through as you or your clients or through your workshops. But I know if I consciously take a day off and switch a laptop off, the phone off, et cetera. I feel so guilty. I did that recently as I was so exhausted that I actually need to clear my head and I just need my space. I had day in the sunshine, but then I feel really guilty afterwards for having taken that time out.   [00:03:21] Ceri, you mustn't feel guilty you've got to be kind to yourself. And I think that almost is a mantra. Be kind to yourself, because if you're not kind to yourself, you're no good to anyone. And when I mentioned about work life balance it doesn't exist anymore. And it's all about life balance. It's actually about activity and recovery. So it's doing all you need to do. That is fine, but you've got to take those moments to recover. And it's something that will genuinely recharge you. So not necessarily coming home, throwing yourself in a chair and putting soap operas on all evening if you're still working away in your mind on the issues that have gone on through the day but not recharging you, you need to do something that completely distracts you. So never feel guilty if you had a day off and you were doing something fabulous. That is the best thing you can do.   [00:04:14] And I think that in the summertime, I don't know how other people respond to this, but when it's lighter in the evenings, rather than switch the TV on or catch up with social media in the summertime, I have to water all my plants. But I look forward to that time with my watering can going around the garden watering my plants because it does force you to switch off. The plants will wither if you don't do it. I will  take that time out and as my gardener reminded me today. Water your plants. You have to do it, don't you?   [00:04:44] You do. You do. And again, it's time out for you. And you're taking in the beauty. You're stimulating your senses. It has such a positive effect on your mindset and your overall health. Oh a couple of years ago, my daughter got married.   [00:05:01] An incredibly exciting time. But then she asked me to do her flowers in the middle of a heat wave and just going out every evening watering these flowers was wonderful. It reminded me actually about work life balance and about getting a balance. When I come home from work as well. So, yeah, get out more to them. There's a lot more benefits to you than just the plants and this sort of thing that you would cover in your book. Yes. So I think when we're looking at energy and just your whole being, we hear so often the energy comes from eating the right things. Sleeping well and from exercising and absolutely it does. But also, it comes from your mental attitude and about thinking positively, having a purpose in life, but also managing all those stresses that go on around you. It's something I call balance. So all of that is going to be really important if you want to actually really live a life long term that's full of energy and vitality.   [00:06:10] How do you maintain that positive mindset? Do those things? I mean, I know that I have some friends who have difficult things going on in their life and they are incredibly positive despite all of that. But others, you would think, seemingly have sort of a wonderful life. And they're the ones that get really depressed and upset over little things.   [00:06:32] Yeah, I know exactly where you're coming from. We are human. And part of our human makeup is that we're going to look to the negative. It's about our survival. It's no good going. Oh, it'll all be alright when historically we would have been facing the saber tooth tiger. So naturally our minds will look to the negative. The problem now is that our minds can't distinguish what's definitely life threatening to us. And what really is just an annoyance maybe at the time. You know, we're triggering those stress responses for all sorts of things that really we don't need to. So we have to make a conscious effort to retrain our minds to be more positive. So doing something like waking up in the morning and training yourself to think of something positive as your own  first thought, or even as you go to bed at night keeping a record of, say, three things that happen that day that you're really grateful for. There's so much evidence now coming through that saying that starts to train the mind, to start to think more positively if you think more positively. You have you're almost more energized because you're taking a much brighter outlook on life.   [00:07:52] Is that something a lot of people talk about. Your vibration rate affects your thoughts. Is that a factor? Positive thinking.   [00:08:02] Yes. Yes. And I think also within a sort of thinking about the ratio of it, what they're recommending is that if every one negative thought you should try to have three or possibly four positive thoughts. So if you catch yourself thinking negatively about something, try and turn it round, try to reframe it into something positive, because that will help you find your way out of what could be a difficult situation that you are thinking negatively and maybe your mood is dropping around it. So make that switch, what we call reframing from the negative to the positive and try and find all positives for that one negative.   [00:08:44] Right. And you will see much of both positive thinking. You've talked about exercise, and people talk about nutrition. Are there other specific things we should be doing exercise wise, nutrition wise, in order to have more energy as well.   [00:08:57] Well, I think definitely as you move into the over 50 age group, your demand for exercise is going to change. And what you're going to find is that you need to do more resistance, are more stretching exercises. A couple of years ago, I started doing yoga because I felt as if I was shriveling up, you know, everything. I wake up in the morning and I would very tentatively walk to the bathroom because my feet felt tight. My legs felt tight. And I found yoga just completely transformed that. But then the next thing I noticed was the muscle wastage. My arms were starting to change. So resistance training as well. I have a pilates reformer machine, which is one that has a platform which moves. And it has sort of elastic bands on it, I'm able to actually to get some sort of body resistance and be able to develop those muscles further. So yeah, we do have to start thinking about how exercise in a different way. And the third thing I do is. Dancing, because I think is so amazing for your mind as well and the camaraderie you get amongst friends and the laughter again is something that really puts your energy into setting.   [00:10:13] I was doing that classes, Fitsteps classes . That's what I do. They put a change of time and venue for the class. I can't quite get to, I have to find another one to go to. And they just used to laugh at me.  I was very lucky. I did mine with Ian Waite when he first started, and he just just laughed at me because I have no sense of direction at all. And he'd say, turn right, and I'd turn  left. And after about I don't know how long I've been going and I actually didn't fall over or didn't bump into anyone in  one class.  He said Ceri, you've got it. It was fun and nobody seemed to mind,  thy used to position me where I could do the least amount of damage. To be fair. Yeah. Yes. But I loved it.   [00:10:58] It's wonderful. I've done Ian's classes as well in Wokingham. And they're so much fun. They really are. And now every week I will make sure I don't miss my fitsteps. I'm really fortunate that I've got an award winning teacher here and it's just such  fun. And I think it brings everything together. And I know I think sometime last year there was a program on television with Angela Rippon and she put dancing as one of the best things you can do to keep your mind alert and to ward off all these sort of aging problems that we can see facing.   [00:11:34]  I saw something on the news clip the other day, I don't know if you saw it, but they were saying that they were helping people with early stages of Alzheimer's do ballet classes. And and they found it helped to develop new neural pathways.   [00:11:52] Yes. And that's and that's what you're trying to do when you think positively as well. You're creating a new neural pathway. So it's just the same with the dancing. It's almost as if the muscle memory that you're building up talks to your brain as well.   [00:12:07] It's really powerful and nutrition as well, because if you've touched on exercise and positive thinking, what specific foods should we be building into our diet at this stage of our lives to have more energy now?   [00:12:21] Well, I think the sort of new nutrients we really need are things like vitamin D, because low vitamin D is connected with so many health issues, particularly things like autoimmune conditions. So one that I struggle with is an under active thyroid. And are they they found quite a connection now between low vitamin D and an autoimmune condition. So vitamin D you'll get that from as well as the wonderful sunshine. People may have got it over the weekend with this wonderful weather, but also from things like oily fish from dairy products, vitamin B12, as we age, we don't produce as much stomach acid and other enzymes in our stomachs that help us break food down and help us absorb it. One of the ones that struggles is vitamin B 12 and that's really connected with your energy. So eating more foods that are high and B 12 is going to be important and that will be things like whole grains. So having whole wheat bread or whole wheat pasta or whole rice, whole grain rice, not anything that's beige that has not been bleached out because it's actually in the husk of all these grains that you get these wonderful nutrients as well as zinc, which is really important for the stomach as well. And along with that protein and it's protein, you really need to counteract the muscle wastage. So we often think of having, say, a protein shake is something that a bodybuilder would have. But actually, as you move over into that sort of magic decades of over 50, then protein becomes really important as well.   [00:14:13] It also helps the brain because a lot of the amino acids in protein are things that are going to help develop dopamine, serotonin.  So all those neurotransmitters in the brain that are important for our memory, for happiness, for mood, for feeling great about life, it will help all those as well. So if we have a balanced diet, is there a need to take supplements as well, I'm much more in favour of trying to get it naturally. I really am now a multi vitamin I think can help. I do take one. But I'm much more in favour of eating more natural foods. And we talk we so much about the Mediterranean diet, there is an enormous amount of research that does say the Mediterranean diet is really good for you and the Mediterranean diet is about having good proteins. So whether that be from chicken, turkey, lots of fish, getting it through beans and lentils, nuts and seeds, good oils as well, olive oils, all of this fruit, vegetables, eating things and their natural state, that's very wholesome. It doesn't have to be difficult to cook these foods, but they are important. They will give you the absolute basis that's going to give you all the nutrients you need to actually create energy in your cells in the first place. So, yeah, think Mediterranean, forget all the other faddy diets that are going on around you. The one I would always recommend is the Mediterranean diet, and that's sort of overall energy.   [00:16:01] There are people out there that have an afternoon slump. There's anything specific they can do for that. Yeah. It's interesting actually, because the power nap is a topic that's being talked a lot about at the moment.   [00:16:16] The idea is with a power nap is that you have just a very short sleep. So 10 to 20 minutes in the afternoon. It could be that actually you just sit close your eyes and just relax in that time, maybe listen to some music or maybe you will actually go off to sleep. But if you just sleep for that short amount of time, you shouldn't wake up feeling groggy because you haven't gone into one of the sort of the deep phases of sleep. You go for any longer than a half an hour. You're more likely then to feel groggy when you wake up. So a power nap can be really helpful. But I would put a caveat that in our sleep patterns do change when we start getting older. And if you find yourself not sleeping as well at night, be very careful about trying to top it up during the day because you may find that have a knock on effect of you sleeping even worse at night. So you do need to find the balance. And if anything, if you're not sleeping well at night, try to change the time. Maybe you go to bed, try and change, make sure that your room is quiet, that it is cool, all the things that are going to help you to sleep better. Try that first and then look to seeing whether a power nap may work for you, but without altering your nighttime sleep too much because it can have a detrimental effect.   [00:17:43] Which would be your three top tips that you would suggest to people to actually help improve their energy overall.   [00:17:53] Yeah. Well, I mean, we've talked about food and dieting so much. But, you know, one of the most important things is to stay hydrated. Right. People do not drink enough water. And I see this over and over again. I actually see the younger generation drinking much more water than a more mature generation now. I recommend have a pint glass of water by you and just be sipping that and then topping it up again during the day because the brain is actually 73 percent water. So if you get dehydrated, that's why your energy drops. That's why you can't think straight. That's why it's struggling to remember something and concentrate and focus. So definitely stay well hydrated. Get out and have a walk in the morning light if you have a walk in the morning light that actually triggers the production of serotonin. Now, serotonin is the happy hormone that makes you feel good, makes you feel bright and happy. The great thing about it is in the evening it's actually converted into melatonin and that's the sleep hormone. So spending lots of time inside, behind glass, even if you can see daylight is not going to trigger that serotonin in the first place. So get out and have a good 20, 30 minute walk each day. And you're almost doing two things that you're still doing some exercise, but you're also helping your sleep patterns as well. And the third thing that I think is really important to people is be curious. I also think we're so busy. We're sort of losing our curiosity, ask questions, listen to things like podcasts or TED talks. Just find things that will stimulate your mind because that's going to really help your energy. And that will come from you having this curiosity of the world, of everything going on, and it will start to trigger a lot more. That will give you a sense of purpose.   [00:20:03] Thank you so much for sharing all of us today, Susan. Now, apart from buying your book, which we can put a link to in  this podcast, how  can people get in touch with you?   [00:20:15] Well, firstly, there's my Web site, which is www.susanscott.co.uk And there's lots and lots of information on that website with links to all sorts of things and tips. My top ten tips on various topics around nutrition, the mind, health, lots there for you. I also have two Instagram accounts and one of them is called the Energy Aunt. And the second one is called Age of Energy. And I'm always very happy as well to talk at events. so any speaking on any of the topics that you can see related on on my Web site or my Instagram accounts.   [00:21:01] Well, thank you so much for taking the time out to talk to us today. Really appreciate it. And look forward to the feedback on your tips from very energetic listeners. Oh, Ceri, thank you so much for inviting me. And I love talking to you. Thank you.   [00:21:23] Thank you for joining us today. Please do subscribe and also send the link to friends and be part of the pro-age conversation. Life really is meant to be fabulous at every age, but especially after 50.      

Interview with Mind and Body Expert Susan Scott on How to Have More Energy and Improve your Work Life Balance

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Ceri Wheeldon of Fab after Fifty talks to therapist  Wendy Gregory about how to recognise a narcissist. A topic which has proven to be of enormous interest when we have discussed dating over 50 on the Fab after Fifty website. This is the first of a series of 3 interviews on recognising and dealing with narcissists. In this episode Wendy will share: How to recognise the signs of narcissistic behaviour. The three phases of a relationship with a narcissist - love bombing, devalue, discard. What is involved in each stage What is gaslighting ? Wendy's contact details: theWendyHouse57@gmail.com or TheWendyHouse facebook page The patterns of narcissistic behaviour  ----more---- Full episode transcript: [00:00:06] I'm Ceri Wheeldon. Welcome to the Fab after Fifty podcast. Leading the pro age conversation, talking about all things life after 50.   [00:00:19] Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Fab after Fifty podcast. I'm very pleased to have with me today Wendy Gregory. Now Wendy is a counsellor, psychologist and writer. Hello and welcome to Fab after 50.   [00:00:32] Hi, Ceri.   [00:00:34]  What are we going to be talking about today?   [00:00:37] Today we're talking about narcissistic personality disorder and initially on how, you know, if you're actually involved or in a relationship with a narcissist.   [00:00:49] There is an awful lot of media coverage about narcissism today is that because there are more of them out there with it, because we're just more aware of what a narcissistic personality is.   [00:00:59] Yeah, that's a difficult one really to pinpoint. And I personally think that there probably are more narcissistic people simply because parenting styles have changed over the years and become much more child centered as a lot more children are growing up believing that they're special. And this that doesn't help. But we don't actually have any numbers. I mean, the thing with narcissistic personality disorder is that very few narcissists will ever present for therapy. So they're largely undiagnosed.   [00:01:33] Right. And what exactly is a narcissistic personality disorder?   [00:01:38] Okay. Narcissistic personality disorder is a developmental disorder. There's often confusion. People think it's a mental illness and it isn't. If it were a mental illness, we could treat it with drugs or whatever and cure it. And it isn't actually the case. So it's about ways of behaving that are not what we'd call normal. I hate to use the word normal really as a psychologist, but. But they're not normal. They affect their relationships and more importantly they affect everyone that they're involved with. So there is narcissism is on a continuum. So this very low level, what we call a covert narcissists, there's that really quite hard to spot and generally they go through life without being spotted and then going upwards to the extreme and the overt, malignant, sadistic narcissist type, much more obvious. And it's really a collection of behaviours. So I'll just give you a few examples and a grandiose sense of self-importance. They're always very grandiose. So they pick themselves up. They're boasting, they claim to have done things well, make up qualifications and clams that just don't exist. And they believe that they are special and unique and they have an absolute need for excessive admiration. So that ties in with boasting a lot and a lack of empathy. So they really, really don't empathize with other people. And and that makes them obviously very difficult to have any sort of satisfactory relationship with them, very manipulative.   [00:03:15] So their whole aim really in life is to get what they want and at the expense of everybody else. All right. I mean, I know recently there've been a few examples in terms of films, one I watched on, I think on either Netflix or Prime was Dirty John, which is a true life story which gets quite horrific in fact in terms of how this poor woman was abused without giving away the ending but Dirty John well, I can be quite open here. I mean, I haven't been in a similar relationship myself  with a very different ending. But you almost see the patterns, you recognized it as it was happening.  And then you think, why didn't I recognise it when it was happening to me?   [00:03:57] Did you see, Dirty John? And yes, it was an absolute classic pattern of narcissistic behaviour. And as you said, we won't give any spoilers, but he was at the extreme end of narcissistic personality disorder.   [00:04:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So for those that haven't seen it. If you think you're involved in a strange relationship, look it up because if a friend who you think is in a controlling relationship. Also, if they watch it, they might help you understand why she puts up with it in quotes  behaviour that perhaps you wouldn't. Maybe understand where she's coming from. How to say to people, how do you know if you're involved with somebody who is a narcissist? What should would we be looking out for?   [00:04:43] All right. Well, the symptoms that I've just mentioned, obviously, and that there's a pattern to the relationship and narcissistic relationships are done in three phases. And so the first stage is we call it love bombing. The second is devaluing and the third is discarding. Initially, narcissists love bomb you, so that's something to watch out for, it's too much, too soon. They shower you with attention. They may even shower you with gifts and expensive presents, but not always. But they shower you with attention. They want commitment very, very early on because of course, they cant manipulate you if you're not committed to them. So they start talking about a seriously long term relationship,  might even ask you to marry them on your first date,  tell you that you're soul mates and but things tend to watch out for really are  that it is  too much too soon. But also that if they seem to have interests that are exactly the same as yours now that's obvious. It might just be coincidence that they do that to get you to feel that you are soul mates. You know, you're meant to be together and so on. So some of the examples I can give and because I see a lot of clients now who've been in narcissistic relationships and one of the examples which have been given permission behind by the client to share was the man who had been involved in a relationship with an extreme narcissistic woman.   [00:06:15] And looking back on the first date, he was an amateur wrestler in his spare time and on their first date, she claimed to be an amateur wrestler as well. Unusual. That is a really unusual thing. But he said, you know, now that I can laugh because how did that fit to the very petite frame and just think, how did I believe? But at the time, I thought, oh, great. Amazing. I found someone who's got the same interests as me. Things like, if you like Kate Bush, they will have all her albums . And then they will say that they've been to see her live. They might even say they know her well. They've got a personal connection with Kate, but you can do a little bit of digging around that. You know, you can actually catch them out, ask them what from some of the tracks are and help them or where they were last on live. Something like that. You can catch them out and also they tend to be in multiple relationships. So it's very likely that when you first date a narcissist, they will still be involved with someone else. Obviously, they try to cover their tracks quite well. But just doing a little bit of digging and if they're vague about where they live or who they live with or when they broke up with their previous partner. That is a red flag really for you need to push for more detail. But how can you, you say push for more detail in what way, because if its new, you wouldn't expect to know their wearabouts  seven days a week, 24 hours a day, because you've your life hopefully that you will be living as well.   [00:07:50] Absolutely. Absolutely. But as we said with the love bombing stage, they will be contacting you constantly. So and on the first date, I mean, I because I have been involved in two narcissistic relationships, but the most recent one and he asked me before the date ended it, when can I see you again.  On my way home on the train. I was getting texts from him. I can't believe I've met such a such a lovely woman. The next morning in a more texts, more texts, more texts, phoning every day. So the attention is constant. So back to back to the red flag. That's a warning sign because people that are mentally healthy people don't do instant relationships. They take time to get to know you. They don't do all this love bombing and too much too soon. But as for asking them where they live. I mean, you don't want to make it an interrogation on a first date, but you don't have an interview. Yeah. But can't ask to  prove who you are, do you have a recent bank statement and you cant ask that, but just be aware and if it is vague. I mean, one of the really common ones is, oh, I'm staying with friends at the moment while I'm looking for a place of my own. And then that gets them out of ever having to invite you there to their place. Oh, no, you can't come here.   [00:09:11]  Now we have mobile phones haven't we  we but when we were a  lot younger. Obviously, when you reach your 50s , our first experience of dating was when  we were in our teens and early 20s, and  we had fixed landlines then. But people called you at home.  So you had to be in a physical place, didn't you, to take those calls?   [00:09:29] Yes, you did. I mean, we didn't even have voicemail.   [00:09:34] Whereas now ,with mobile phones, you could be anywhere. Absolutely. You could be anywhere. And have more than one mobile.   [00:09:43] They do. That's very common that they have, you know, mine had four in the end, four different mobiles. Yeah. Yeah. So, yes, that's another sign up. Another warning sign. If if whenever you ring it goes up, it goes to voicemail and it's a little bit suspicious. They usually will call you back. Know they'll find a different place to be, although not for a walk if they're living with someone and they'll call you back. Or they'll pick up the phone and say, I'm in a meeting I'll call you back. If that's a little bit of a warning sign, if it keeps happening, obviously sometimes people are unavailable and you'd expect that. But if if it keeps happening, that they very rarely actually pick up the phone when you ring. Why? No one is that busy. Yeah.   [00:10:30] That's look at the early stages. Yeah. But what if you miss all the signs and you find yourself in stage 2 . Stage 2.   [00:10:40] That's called the devaluing stage and the narcissist will have put you on a pedestal during the first phase and then they start knocking you off the pedestal. So basically, they start devaluing you. They start criticising you. They start blaming you for everything. They'll turn everything around and make it your fault. And this is called gaslighting. And you start (after the film) The old black and white film where the husband was plotting to have the wife murdered and he made her think that she was going insane. And that's where the term comes from. And it's very common touch. You feel as if you are going insane because that's what a narcissist will do. They also can pick you up and put you down. So one minute they're telling you how much they love you, what a wonderful person you are, blah, blah, blah. And the next day, not contactable or they're criticising you constantly. They very often start to disappear. I think the term is ghosting now. They'll just disappear. You can't get hold of them. You don't know where they are for sometimes two or three days at times and sometimes a week. And you become very, very anxious in the relationship. You feel very confused. You don't understand what's happening. And then all of a sudden they're back. No. Reassure you. Oh, no, no, no. It's you. You've got trust issues. You've got jealousy problems. You need to get that sorted to help. And you do start to feel as if you're going crazy. You really do. So, yeah, that's that's that's the second phase. So if you start to well it's abusive basically. And that is quite subtle often and you don't realise it's happening for some time. But once you do, you need to try and get out of it, try and pull away from it.   [00:12:29] And also we hear that abuse can be financial cant it. Yes, it can. If you like, very controlling in all aspects of your life. Certainly.   [00:12:38] Very often they do. Yes. And they will also often leave. They tend to groom and groom people. And this is you know, it's not just men that are narcissists are female narcissists as well. But similarly, there are a lot more of this around. But, yes, they will groom you for it to meet their needs. So sexually. Financial needs are very often borrow money or steal money, actually defraud you and of your money. So, yeah, I mean that's  financial abuse.   [00:13:10] And also my understanding is that from personal experience, they would try to isolate you from those people who are close to you who might become more aware of that behaviour. And I mean, if you look at Dirty John, that was a classic example in that film. It was. It was, yes. But they do try to isolate you from people that are important to you or they feel can influence you.   [00:13:31] Yeah. Yeah. They've tried to separate you from your friends and family very often. Yes. So other people because it's very often your friends or your family that spot that there's something not right. And they will be telling you, you know, this isn't right. You need to. You need to end this, you need to get out there. So, of course, they don't want that because they want to be the person in control. And everything is about control with a narcissist. Everything they do. They have to be in control. They actually just can't cope with not being in control. So, yes, they will try to isolate you very often from your friends or family . And presumably at that devalue stage is when they can they can actually have total control over you.   [00:14:12] Yes. Yes, they do that. Yes.   [00:14:14] They have total control over your  mind or your body or your needs, everything. Yes.   [00:14:22] And then the last stage then is the discard stage isnt it.   [00:14:25] Yes. Yes. And in the discard stage, they will be moving on to what's referred to as a new source of supply narcissist  and will have at least one, usually several sources, its called sources of narcissistic supply.   [00:14:41] So they will be they usually will have started another relationship. They may have been having another relationship all along, but they'll be on to the next person that they that they start love bombing and the ghosting and the disappearing will become more intense. Oh, I'm going away on business undoing this or they'll use their health as an excuse. That's a common one. Got to have an operation. They've got to have an MRI scan. Weirdly, at 9 p.m. in the evening or any kind of excuse, they will gradually, gradually withdraw.   [00:15:15] And sometimes it's the other way round. They will do something so awful that it prompts you to end the relationship. So either way, they they want to cut off from you. But a narcissist even when they end, they will keep coming back because they like to have you available in case their new source of supply falls through. So they tend to keep you dangling on a piece of string called hoovering. And every now and then they keep coming back just to make sure you're still there. Make sure you're still available. And that's really when you stop to think you're going insane. And it's not because they care about you. It really is not interested at all. They just want to know that you're available.   [00:16:00] Yes,soit's a fairly unsavory character type to get involved with. Really?   [00:16:07] It is. And people will often say, well, how did he get involved with them in the first place? And that's the other thing about narcissists is they are always, without exception, extremely charming and charismatic. You can think of a few notable and famous people. One of them lives in America. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. I dont want to get sued for libel or anything, but I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. So, yes, they are extremely charming and charismatic, and that's what draws us to them in the first place. And obviously, we don't realise at the time that it's not genuine, but it's it's all for show. That isn't who they are. In fact, they're actually quite empty. There's nothing there.   [00:16:48] They don't really have a personality. So with all of this are there typical timescales, because they talked about the three stages. Is it sort of, I don't know, maybe there's not really been any research to quantify. Are there specific timeframes?   [00:17:05] I don't think so, you're right Ceri, I don't think there has been any research into it. I actually think it's really variable. And with a covert narcissist, I mean, they often are married, sometimes their whole lives, have families and everything. So it's can be lifelong or with the more extreme type of narcissists, it tends to be much more short lived because their behaviour is so extreme. They can't really keep a relationship going for very long. And I'm going to say, mine lasted nine months but it may be sort of up to two years. But of course, if you've had children with them, then that is a completely different ballgame because you're never rid of them really. If you've got contact with them, then it becomes much, much more difficult and much more complicated.   [00:17:55] I know some of the discussions that come up in the we have a Facebook page where we've post articles and  I included one from you Wendy about dating narcissism. Yes. But people have commented that they'd come out of long marriages with narcissists that maybe lasted 30 years. Yeah. And when they've left they have been devastated and broken at the end of it. So the fact it was so long. Not really understanding what was happening.   [00:18:21] That's not fair. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   [00:18:25] Thank you so much for this, Wendy. Obviously, we talk about the narcissistic personality disorder today, but we're going to do a couple more episodes, aren't we? There's too much to cover in one, but there are two more episodes at least that were going to be doing. And the next one, I think you've got sound is talking about how you recover from having been in a relationship like that. Indeed , yes.  So thank you very much for joining us today.   [00:18:47] How could people reach you, Wendy.  They can reach me via my Facebook page, which is called the Wendy House or my email, which is theWendyHouse57@gmail.com   [00:19:04] We'll have details in the in the overview as well. But meantime, people want to be in touch with you that's how to do it  and I look forward to sharing. I guess, episode two in our narcissistic series.   [00:19:19] Yes. You're welcome, Ceri. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye bye.   [00:19:29] Thank you for joining us today. Please do subscribe and also send the link to friends and be part of the pro age conversation. Life really is meant to be fabulous at every age, but especially after 50.                    

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Welcome to the Fab after Fifty Podcast, with Ceri Wheeldon, founder and editor of the Fab after Fifty website Leading the pro-age conversation providing information and inspiration  for women over 50. Introducing a series of interviews with inspirational women or experts who can off the tools and resources to truly make life fabulous over 50.  ----more---- Full transcript: Welcome to the Fab after Fifty podcast. Leading the pro age conversation. I'm Ceri Wheeldon and ten years ago I set up the website, FabafterFifty.co.uk to provide resources and inspiration to women over 50, primarily because I believe women should feel and be fabulous at every age. Not fade into the background and become invisible. Over the past 10 years, we've covered topics as diverse as combating ageism in the workplace, becoming an empty nester, reinventing your life, the menopause, style, health, fitness, writing your first book , Setting up a business and genuinely thriving through life's changes over 50. Now I've spoken to so many inspirational women who have shared their own experiences or their own reinvention stories, or who are experts in various fields that can really help us to make the best of this stage of our lives. And I thought it would be fabulous to actually start sharing these moving forward in a new Fab After 50 podcast. So please join me in the coming weeks and months as we discuss all things fabulous over 50. So please subscribe to the channel and forward the link to a friend. Why even think about being invisible when life over 50 is fabulous.

Welcome to the Fab after Fifty Podcast

Information and inspiration for women over 50. Ceri Wheeldon, editor of the Fab after Fifty website hosts Interviews and discussions with inspirational women and experts to help live the best life possible over 50

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Fab after Fifty - Leading the Pro-Age Conversation

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