In this episode, we discuss Feanor and how he messed things up a lot for everyone. Also, we decide that the Lord of the Balrogs is Krampus.   0:53 Oath 1:27 The Darkening of Valinor 2:16 Morgoth is rescued from Ungoliant by Balrogs 2:40 Send us art! 3:05 Fëanor gives a speech blaming the Vala 3:30 Galadriel and Fingolfin’s family followed  3:45 Teleri = sea elves… Fëanor wants their boats 4:20 What happens when the Teleri say no to Fëanor 5:00 Some elves do not take part in kinslaying and some fight against Fëanor with Teleri 5:35 Not enough boats! 6:05 Why did elves leave at the end of LOTR? 6:40 King of Gondolin and Melian the Maia are Luthien’s parents 7:48 We’ll come back for you, Fingolfin 8:14 The Grinding Ice 9:00 Burns the ships instead of helping his half brother 9:25 Ships are Teleri version of Silmarils 10:25 Fëanor’s death 11:40 Fëanor was basically the next in line for the elf throne in Valinor 12:40 Fëanor is a bully 13:20 Why is Fëanor obsessed with light? 14:20 Why is Tolkien obsessed with light? - See Tom Shippey’s Author of the Century Concepts of Evil. 14:58 All of Morgoth’s imprisonments were about light 16:15 Lost Tales - Fëanor used a pearl from the Teleri to make the silmarils 17:05 Morgoth is not around during LotR 18:00 Different parts of Fëanor’s nature 20:28 Fëanor and his kids are awful - His grandson, Celebrimbor disowned his family 21:28 Morgoth’s crown 22:30 Fëanor thought the light of the trees lived in Galadriel’s hair 23:00 Galadriel is the most beautiful girl in the… room (depending on the room) #FlightoftheConchords 24:20 Galadriel’s judgement 24:40 Galadriel judged nobody harshly… except Fëanor 24:50 Gothmog is Krampus! 25:25 Fëanor asked Galadriel for 1 hair 3x. Nah, bro! 26:13 Fëanors fiery spirit consumed his body when he died.   References: All music is courtesy of  Doctor Turtle.

Fifth Age Podcast: Tolkien Stories

The Life of Fëanor

This is the first part of a long conversation about the First Age elvish craftsman Fëanor. We discuss background information about who he is and why he is important to talk about. It will give a lot of context to some other topics in Middle Earth. This was recorded a couple of years ago in the summer. We’re outside, there will be noises!    2:24 What is it about Fëanor that is worth discussing? 3:30 Dan keeps saying Ga-laid-riel 3:51 Fëanor is not mentioned in LOTR, but his influence is enormous 4:30 Dan hasn’t read the Silmarillion 4:43 Who is this Fëanor guy? 5:00 Noldorian craftsman, was taught by an elvish apprentice of Aulë 5:25 Sauron was also a servant of Aulë 6:10 The Silmarils - contain part of Fëanor so they can not be replicated, even by Aulë. Also contain light of the trees 6:37 Morgoth destroyed the lamps and was imprisoned by the Vala.  6:48 Yavanna creating the trees. 6:54 Creating the Silmarils, trees, sea, and the fire of his spirit 7:17 Silmarils shone from within, Varda hallowed them. If you’re evil, no touchie or it will burn you. 7:40 Silmarils are the greatest work of any elf ever 8:00 Fëanor created the Elvish script - Tengwar - the writing on the one ring and also created the Palantíri. 9:14 Morgoth was released from prison right around the time Fëanor made the silmarils.  9:38 Morgoth spreading rumors that Fëanor’s half brother Fingolfin wanted the high kingship.  9:57 Finwë’s wives  10:43 Morgoth stirred up trouble, telling Fëanor that everyone wanted to steal the silmarils 11:25 Fëanor threatened Fingolfin publicly because of Morgoth’s lies 11:33 Adam and Lilith?  12:15 The awakening of the elves - elves were brought to Valinor by Oromë 13:13 Varda is the elves’ favorite vala because the first thing the elves saw were stars. 13:50 Finwë’s second wife had 2 calmer children. Finarfin and Fingolfin. Finarfin is Galadriel’s awesome dad. 14:56 Míriel and Indis - women are not discussed much except Galadriel.  15:48 Erica made a family tree of the house of Finwë. 17:00 Fëanor was creative but had a dark side, threatening his half brother at a party 17:25 The Vala tried to recapture Melkor when they heard he was making trouble. 18:07 The darkening of Valinor - Ungoliant, the trees, the silmarils, and Finwë                     18:44 Vala want to revive the trees by breaking the silmarils to restore light to valinor. 19:30 Fëanor denying the Vala the silmarils shows his character 20:20 The silmarils are sacred objects and light is the cornerstone of the culture.  20:40 Can’t recreate the silmarils, it might not kill Fëanor to destroy the silmarils, but it might? 21:22 When Fëanor found out all the stuff Melkor did, he named him Morgoth, which means “abhorred one”. Then everyone called Melkor that forever. 21:50 The oath of Fëanor - He and his sons take an oath to hunt down anyone that keeps a silmaril from him or his family. DAN IS LAUGHING RIGHT NOW! 22:22 Dan is singing a camp song. Erica never went to camp.

Intro to Fëanor

In this minisode cut from the end of our upcoming Fëanor episodes, we cover a lot of ground pretty quickly. We discuss whether or not Sauron’s love of crafts and his creative vs. dominant nature, Galadriel’s hair, the work of the Noldo elves, whether or not Frodo had a choice to destroy the ring in the end, if Elrond could have done any better, and how Isildur’s failure to destroy the ring affected Elrond. The reference to Shippey in this minisode is a reference to a part of his book Author of the Century, where he talks about the ring and evil.   References: All music is courtesy of  Doctor Turtle.

Fëanor minisode

Welcome to our first ever listener question episode! Thanks to Deb for this intriguing idea. 1:00 Tom Shippey, sources 1:20 Hi Deb! 1:37 Orc clans - warlike 1:50 Sauron and Morgoth found ways to unite them. 2:00 Nature of evil 2:30 People asked Tolkien this very question! Specifically Peter Hastings, the manager of the Newman Catholic Bookshop. 2:50 Naturally bad, but not irredeemably bad. 3:20 Who is Tom Shippey? 4:20 Orcs made by Morgoth 4:30 Evil can’t create, can only corrupt. 5:00 Morgoth made orcs in mockery of the elves and Eru. 5:15 It’s an example of subverting God’s will. 5:30 Orcs in other literature are generally derived from Tolkien (discussion of Bright). 7:10 Orcs and loyalty. See Tom Shippey’s Orcs, Wraiths, and Wights. Orcs show knowledge of good and evil. 7:38 “Regular Elvish Trick” 8:00 Elvish = bad, orcs are the opposite of elves. 8:20 Dan thought orcs would have opposite morals but they don’t. 8:40 Elves can be bad too, just look at Fëanor (or Eöl). 8:50 Orcs are the infantry of the old war against the Vala and the elves in the first age. 9:18 Morgoth put his power into his works, the evil dilutes. 9:40 Erica’s amazing hand gestures. 9:50 Morgoth’s diluted evil - this idea has spread to other fantasy. 10:14 The dilution of evil is also dilution of control, so Sauron has a harder time controlling them than Morgoth did. 10:20 Tolkien tossed around the idea of a hive mind, but never really settled on it. They misbehave. 10:40 Ocrs that were elves vs. orcs that were men? 11:00 Orcs vs. goblins - idea for future research for Erica! Or, if you know, please tell us where Erica can look it up! 11:20 Goblins/elves = Moria, Orcs/men = Mordor? (upon further consideration, Erica doesn’t think this part is terribly likely because both of those places are extremely far East considering when orcs came into being) 12:10 We solved everything! Wait… not in any way… 12:27 Melkor corrupted orcs and they serve him out of fear. 12:47 The alternative is unpleasant 13:00 Born, not manufactured like the goo chamber in Orthanc in the movies. 14:00 Initial group created in the first age and the rest descended from them. 14:20 Is the goo chamber in Orthanc corruption? (Erica needs to watch the special features again) 14:54 Could there be a good orc? Yes. Not irredeemable. 15:00 It’s important to Tolkien to have redemption as an option. 15:24 Catholic background - post-fall beings with free will 15:50 Nothing can be created without Eru Tokien’s letters p 195 - “by accepting or tolerating their making… orcs would become part of the World, which is God’s and ultimately good”. 16:28 Orcs know good and evil so they MUST be redeemable. 16:40 Only Eru could create things with independent thought 17:05 Eru wouldn’t sanction Melkor’s works like he did Aulë’s. 17:24 Corruption isn’t inheritable 17:50 Don’t know about socialization of orcs. 18:00 Children of a warlike, violent life.   References: A lot of research went into this episode. Most of the information is from the following resources. Erica’s reference librarian brain is annoyed that these citations are not in a style or alphabetized, but she’s in a bit of a hurry today. The Silmarillion local library / local bookstore The Letters of JRR Tolkien, Selected and edited by Humphrey Carpenter, Houghten Mifflin Boston, 1981. Morgoth’s Ring, by Christopher Tolkien, Allen and Unwin UK, 1993. “Orcs, Wraiths, Wights: Tolkien's Images of Evil,” by Tom Shippey, in: JRR Tolkien and his Literary Resonances, ed by George Clark and Daniel Timmons, Greenwood Press, 2000 JRR Tolkien: Author of the Century by Tom Shippey, Harper Collins, 2000.   All music is by the amazing Doctor Turtle! Feel free to show him some love over on Bandcamp.

Could there ever be a good orc?

In this discussion from our Stewards of Gondor recordings, we talk about Nimloth, the White Tree of Gondor. We also talk about Elrond solving everyone’s problem by just kicking Isildur into a volcano and the Netflix Shannara series.   00:30 What’s the deal with the tree? 00:58 It’s name is Nimloth 1:08 Descendent and look alike of Telperion 1:20 The trees of Valinor 1:30 You were right, Erica, the lamps were first! 1:50 The silver tree is Telperion. 2:00 The trees were killed by Morgoth and Ungoliant 2:20 Who are Morgoth and Ungoliant again? 2:40 Ugh. Spiders. 3:00 The tree in Numenor 3:15 Tar Palantir’s prophecy. 3:30 Sauron was in Númenor and wanted the tree destroyed. 3:57 Isildur stole a fruit from the tree/Herculean labor 4:30 Derpules  - get a photo of Derpules 4:47 Nerd alerts all around! 4:57 Isildur brought the fruit to Middle Earth (the continent) 5:50 Isildur doesn’t mess up all the things he does… 6:00 At least he’s not an idiot like Eänur! 6:09 But… he had a chance to destroy the ring and he didn’t. 6:14 Elrond didn’t Sparta-kick him in like he could have. 6:23 Beowulf - Killing one’s kin is one of the worst crimes imaginable. Unfortunately, Erica was wrong here. Elrond wasn’t really related to Isildur, but they were definitely buddies. 6:47HISHE, LOTR pt 2: Elrond Sparta-kicking Isildur into Mount Doom. 7:07 Elrond’s dad was an amazing fighter 7:10? (oops, Erica said badass). 7:07 Elrond was the standard bearer for Gil-Galad. 7:43 The tree in Gondor was tended in the courtyard. One died and was buried in the tombs of the kings. They didn’t want to burn it after the last time… The one in LOTR is the second one. 8:26 Buried another fruit 8:37 Aragorn and Gandalf find it in the mountains. 9:00 It’s a new tree when Aragorn takes the throne. 9:08 In the movie, it’s different. The tree comes back to life. 9:42 Shannara - Ellcrys - Netflix series. 11:58 Magic has a price. 13:40 Back to the topic… 13:45 Tree that Galadriel gave Sam was a mallorn tree. There were mallorns in Númenor, but they aren’t the same. 14:15 Was Sam’s seed from the golden tree? No. It was a mallorn, which is different. It’s the only one West of the Misty Mountains and East of the Sea. 14:38 Sam is Sam 15:12 In the book, Sam gets an important box of dirt. There’s no scouring of the Shire, so they didn’t have to put it in. References: All music is by the amazing Doctor Turtle! Feel free to show him some love over on Bandcamp. All LOTR movie references will be to the extended editions because Erica can’t stand the theatrical cut of the Two Towers. Here are links to our sources for free at your local library. We heartily encourage you to support your public library, but if you want to own your own copy we understand, so we are also supplying links through IndieBound.org so you can get it from your local independent bookstore.  The Hobbit local library / local bookstore LOTR local library / local bookstore The Silmarillion local library / local bookstore Unfinished Tales: local library / local bookstore LOTR Film extended edition blu-ray:local library 

The White Tree

In case you were wondering, yes, we do care. 

It’s Valentine’s Day! You know what that means…

In this, the last part of our conversation about the Stewards of Gondor, we discuss a whole mess o’ stuff. We talk about some of the issues Erica has with the Two Towers theatrical release, Rivendell’s used car sales, Boromir failing, and Denthor not being able to even. 1:06 how long after finding Boromir does Faramir find Frodo? 1:24 he knows Boromir is dead, but this is the first Frodo hears of it 1:40 Frodo assumes that if the company’s wall died, nobody else could have made it. 2:10 movie/book scene of Boromir trying to take the ring. 3:07 Frodo takes the ring away, Boromir falls on his face, all better! 3:45 Boromir fails the rest of the ring but redeems himself. 4:15 Boromir was looking for Isildur’s bane and asked the council to bring the ring to Gondor. 4:50 Galadriel tests everyone and Boromir fails immediately. 5:30 Boromir held out for a long time. He doesn’t try to take the ring until the decision to go east or west is upon them. He was lost by the time they left Moria. 6:00 Boromir blows his horn as soon as he sees the odds in his fight. 6:55 Boromir blows horn in Rivendell and Elrond is all, “DUDE! Did you JUST?!?!? 7:05 we took the Tombadil down when we stopped selling used cars in the second age! 7:30 Boromir sounds the horn for very few reasons. Like reminding himself that he’s fighting. 8:00 the ring as a catalyst. 8:20 Boromir wants the ring as a weapon against Mordor. Especially once he finds out what it is. 8:45 when Faramir tells his story, Denethor has already figured out what’s going on with the palantír. Knows that Faramir let Frodo go. 9:03 UNLIKE the movie 9:15 Dan’s reasoning for why the movie is how it is: it’s clearer than if he just lets him go, like in the book. 10:50 Erica disagrees. Hates the Frodo in Osgiliath scene (for several reasons but also) because it’s a Boromir decision. 11:30 in the book, it shows Faramir easily passing the test that Boromir failed. It illustrates the differences between the brothers. 11:40 Faramir presents himself to Denethor for judgment, tells his story and says “I hope I have not done ill”. 12:50 Denethor disagrees with Faramir’s decision. Thinks he’s weak. 13:35 Faramir’s courage is standing up for what’s right, not charging into battle. So Denethor tries to get him to prove himself by sending him into battle in his brother’s place. 14:35 asks if there is a captain that will do his lords will IN FRONT of other generals like Prince Imrahil. Not cool, Denethor… not cool. 15:15 the movie puts Faramir in a worse position to show his courage more starkly. 15:40 book Faramir needs Frodo to leave so he doesn’t put himself and his men in danger. 15:57 movie Faramir does what Boromir would have done and realizes its wrong 16:05 Dan: Faramir gets a redemption arc in the movie! Erica: in the book, he doesn’t need one! 16:18 other things Erica hates about the Frodo in Osgiliath scene. She almost walked out of the theater… almost. 16:50 the Nazgûl is a BIG problem, but it’s very dramatic. 17:05 Erica might hate it, but it serves a cinematic purpose 17:33 no rivalry between Boromir and Faramir. 17:55 extended version of RotK has great scene with Boromir and Faramir in Osgiliath. 19:54 Faramir comes back poisoned, Denethor looks at the palantír, Sauron shows him utter destruction, and Denethor loses it 21:00 list of things Denethor is dealing with right now. Erica forgot to add that even if the war is won, Denethor will lose his status because Aragorn will take the throne. *side note: Denethor didn’t directly send Boromir to Rivendell. However, he could have ordered both sons not to go. There was a chance that Rivendell had a weapon that could help win the war so he had to let someone go investigate it. He trusts that Boromir will know what to do if that weapon is useful and doesn’t trust Faramir’s judgement as much. See also,

The Fall of Denethor

In our third installment of the Stewards of Gondor, we get to the family interactions between Denethor, Boromir, and Faramir. It’s all about leadership style, oddly enough. Dan shares some of his military experience, and Erica mispronounces Imladris several times. Enjoy!   :15 Why is Denethor unhappy with Faramir? :25 Faramir enjoyed Big G’s visits. :43 Faramir is kind of the nerdy brother, Boromir is kind of the jock. 1:03 Denethor needs warriors so he’s annoyed with Gandalf. 1:19 Soldiers love Boromir and the people love Faramir. 1:30 Now both of his kids are following Gandalf, 1:50 It’s kind of Denethor’s fault that Boromir is in the fellowship. He didn’t want Faramir to go. He told them about Imladris and where their questions would be answered. It’s not really his fault, but Erica enjoys blaming him for it. 2:00 Faramir was having recurring prophetic dreams, he talked to his brother. Boromir had the dream once. 2:33 They asked their dad what to do. Faramir wants to check out the dream. 3:13 Boromir was a stronger fighter and it was a long, dangerous journey. 3:30 Denethor didn’t really want either of them to go because of the war. 3:44 Boromir thought Faramir wouldn’t make it so he took it upon himself to go. 3:58 He also left Faramir with a chance to prove his worth to Denethor. When Boromir left, Faramir took over Osgiliath for a while. 4:13 Soldiers liked Faramir for a different reason than they liked Boromir. 4:30 Dan’s military experiences. 5:04 Boromir is out in front, he’s a powerful fighter. 5:54 Faramir needs to explain why and how. He humanizes his troops. 6:27 There are pluses and minuses to each style. 6:39 Faramir would probably need to convince another leader why his idea is good. 6:54 He needs to know his soldiers better than Boromir, what motivates them. 7:02 This is why Faramir is good Ithilien. 7:13 If Faramir’s guys have a problem, they’ll tell him. Boromir probably wouldn't care. 8:26 Denethor respects one leadership style more than the other. 9:03 That’s one reason he doesn’t want Boromir to go. 9:27 Boromir wants to take the journey on himself to save his brother the danger and give him the opportunity to prove himself to Denethor. 9:50 There’s no real rivalry except what Denethor put there. 9:58 It’s Faramir that finds Boromir in the boat (elf boat, not dwarf boat). 10:43 Denethor’s son that he understands is gone. 10:53 Faramir is loved for reasons that Denethor can’t understand. 10:58 He doesn’t like that Faramir is a “wizard’s pupil”. 11:09 Denethor using the palantir is like Boromir fighting orcs. It’s risky and brash.   References: All music is by the amazing Doctor Turtle! Feel free to show him some love over on Bandcamp. All LOTR movie references will be to the extended editions because Erica can’t stand the theatrical cut of the Two Towers. Here are links to our sources for free at your local library. We heartily encourage you to support your public library, but if you want to own your own copy we understand, so we are also supplying links through IndieBound.org so you can get it from your local independent bookstore.  The Hobbit local library / local bookstore LOTR local library / local bookstore The Silmarillion local library / local bookstore Unfinished Tales: local library / local bookstore LOTR Film extended edition blu-ray:local library   

The Leadership of Denethor, Boromir, and Faramir

In this continuation of our conversation about the stewards of Gondor, we talk about Denethor using the palantír, Sauron using the palantír, and the different military situations in Osgiliath and Ithilien. Episode Timeline 1:00 Where did he get a palantír anyway? 1:20 Fëanor. Kind of the worst IMHO. 1:45 Elendil took 3 palantíri to the north kingdom. One is with Círdan in the Grey Havens, one at 2:25 Amon Sûl (Weathertop), one at Annûminias (capital of the north kingdom). Isildur and Anárion each had 2. One at Minas Ithil (Minas Morgul), one at Osgiliath, one at Orthanc, and one at Minas Anor (Minas Tirith).   3:11 Wormtongue throws one at Gandalf. 3:35 Pippin and Aragorn both look into it. 4:07 Effort of will. - How palantír work. 4:19 Belle’s mirror 4:48 Point your palantír in the direction you want to look! 5:20 Palantír stuff is in Unfinished Tales. 5:45 Mental effort to focus: UT p 403 6:13 Light-related stuff with Fëanor. 6:30 Stewards mostly didn’t use it. 6:44 Sauron used his powers of fear and domination to pull the gaze of the other palantír. 7:09 Sauron turned Saruman through a palantír, but not Denethor. Saruman wasn’t being controlled by Sauron, but he wasn’t very helpful. 7:50 Saruman was trying to play both sides and failed. 8:15 Denethor could use his palantír by right, but it wasn’t a very good idea. 8:28 Technically, they all belong to Aragorn, but the stewards held power in place of the kings so the right to use it belonged to Denethor as well. 9:28 Some of the people of Minas Tirith were Nûmenórian, but not all Gondorians are.  The line of Eӓrendil is part elvish, but not all Nûmenórians were descendants of Eӓrendil. 10:17 Denethor was using the palantír to get the information he needed to fight the war. 10:44 He continued to use it even though it was a huge mental strain and aged him prematurely. 11:05 Sauron was drawing palantír to him but Denethor could turn it away. That’s a huge deal. 11:20 Denethor was taking really big risks because he needed the information. This was the only way to do it, even though he knew it could destroy him. 11:30 Dan talks a little about how military intelligence works. Tolkien would have known about that and it was a subtle and interesting way to use that knowledge in the book. 13:20 Scene of Denethor eating is SO AWFUL and UNCOMFORTABLE. It’s supposed to be. 14:10 Shoutout to Billy Boyd. Wow! 14:55 Denethor had ONE JOB! 15:28 Hey Aragorn, what have you done lately? 15:50 He was hiding up north while Denethor was risking himself using the palantír and sending his sons to die. 17:03 In Rohan (Norse) the aristocracy earned honor in battle, so they were out in the front of battle. Gondorian culture is different. 17:50 Aragorn is out in front, like at the Black Gate where he’s all later, haters! 18:57 In Osgiliath, it’s whatever fight you can make it. 19:10 Boromir is a cavalier, Faramir is a ranger. Ithilien requires stealth. 19:34 Gondor CIA? 20:00 The brief geography of Mordor/Osgiliath/Gondor. 20:57 Erica doesn’t want to get into the Kinstrife right now. Maybe another time!   References: All music is by the amazing Doctor Turtle! Feel free to show him some love over on Bandcamp. All LOTR movie references will be to the extended editions because Erica can’t stand the theatrical cut of the Two Towers. Here are links to our sources for free at your local library. We heartily encourage you to support your public library, but if you want to own your own copy we understand, so we are also supplying links through IndieBound.org so you can get it from your local independent bookstore.  The Hobbit local library / local bookstore LOTR local library / local bookstore The Silmarillion local library / local bookstore Unfinished Tales: local library / local bookstore LOTR Film extended edition blu-ray:local library   

Denethor, the palantíri, and the war against Sauron

In this episode we start our conversation about the Stewards of Gondor. We discuss why Gondor has stewards instead of a king and how Denethor is kind of a baby about it. We touch on why Denethor seems so annoyed with Gandalf. We talk about the death cults of ol’ Numenor a little and start to get into why Denethor decided it was better to give up than continue fighting Sauron.   Background - How the stewards came about Eärnur was the last king of Gondor until Aragorn. He decided to fight the Witch King of Angmar. North and South kingdoms. Eärnur was the last king of the south kingdom, Gondor. The north kingdom of Arnor had been kingless for a while already. Angmar is in the north and that’s where the Witch King started his attack. Kingship through the line of Elendil, who was in charge of the north kingdom Eärnur skipped battle day against the Witch King and was called out as a coward so he went to Mordor to fight him *facepalm*. He had no heirs so the stewards took over when he unsurprisingly didn’t return from Mordor. The whole North/South kingdom thing… Aragorn is heir to the North kingdom as a descendant of Arvedui of Arthedain who was married to Fíriel, an heir to the throne of Gondor.   Episode Timeline 1:13 The stewards are there to hold rule of Gondor while there are no kings. 1:20 Eärnur skipped battle day against the Witch King and was called out as a coward so he went to Mordor to fight him *facepalm*. The one that Éowyn killed… The one “no man can kill”... Yeah… that one. 1:50 North and South kingdoms There’s a long line of descendants between Isildur and Aragorn. The last king of the north kingdom (Arvedui) was married to an heir to the throne of the south kingdom (Fíriel) and Arvedui was a descendant of Isildur. Arvedui was a direct ancestor of Aragorn. 2:05 The line of stewards is hereditary from the steward of the last king of Gondor. 2:30 The first steward’s name was Mardil. 2:45 Eärnur, He’s all… “Imma take care of this Witch King guy”. He rolls up his sleeves, heads off to Mordor, and…. Never returns. :/ 3:09 Glorfindel was all.... I can fight a balrog, but nah, I’ll pass on this one. 3:40 BTW, who’s got the throne? What’s the backup plan here? 3:47 There are stewards because Eärnur couldn’t keep his sword to himself. 4:10 The Witch King isn’t even going to deal with this little man. 4:27 Not with 10,000 men could you do this! Who do you think you are? Éowyn? 4:53 Take care of Gondor until the heir to the throne shows up, but then, no more stewards. 5:15 Oath of office 5:33 In RotK movie, Denethor is a big whiny baby 5:46 Denethor reminds Dan of the bad guy in A Knight’s Tale 6:36 Denethor knows what Gandalf is up to… With your left hand use me as a shield against Mordor and with your right hand you would supplant me. This is in the books too p.835 RotK. 6:56 Rule of Gondor is MINE! WAAAAAHHHHHH! 7:02 P.J. Gave us the name of the movie so we could all drink. 7:11 Erica thinks its dumb and eye rolly, Dan likes the line and thinks it makes sense. *shrug emoji* 7:46 Did you JUST?!?! 8:20 Ian McKellan wanted to use only dialog from the book for his character when possible, but to be fair, Gandalf has some of the best lines. 8:38 The dialog isn’t Star Wars bad, but it isn’t always great either. 9:00 Gandalf throwin’ shade at Denethor for being a whiner. 9:34 Is Denethor on the throne? No, that’s the stewards’ chair. 9:56 While it is true that Dan is not terribly observant, the scene in the movie is shot in such a way that you don’t really see the actual throne very well. 10:20 Dan thought Denethor was in the big boy chair! Since he wasn’t, Gandalf could have just pointed at the throne like, Dude… You don’t have the palantíri to sit up there! You wouldn’t dare! 11:00 Isn’t he happy to fulfill his oath? Not really… 11:20 So why isn’t Denethor happy to see Big G? 11:53 Jealousy issues.

The Stewards of Gondor

In part 2 of the Istari episode, we talked briefly about stone carving and the Lizzadro Museum. Erica got really excited about it, so we decided to go and record a little bit afterwards, and this is the result. While it's only tangentially related to Tolkien, it's kind of in our nature to just go where the conversation takes us. This time we did that pretty literally, and we wanted to include you in this tangent just like we include you in our tangents during our discussions about Tolkien. We start off by recapping our visit briefly, then we talk about azurite and the Blue Istari statue from Shadow of Mordor, and we finish by discussing visiting the museum. We'll be talking less about rocks and more about Tolkien again next time. See you then!   References: All music is by the amazing Doctor Turtle. Website for the Lizzadro Museum of Lapidary Art A video about Jade Carving using modern techniques. Keep in mind the The Blue Azurite Figurine of the Two Istari would have been carved with hand tools, and the stuff in the Lizzadro museum would have been carved with hand tools or as show in in this video from the Lizzadro's website.

Field Trip – Lizzadro Museum of Lapidary Art

This is a discussion we had in pieces while recording our upcoming episode on The House of Denethor (scheduled for release September 28th). We talk about the relationship between Aragorn and Elrond and why it's such a big deal to Elrond that his daughter is into a guy from up north who probably needs to bathe a little more. It's also one of the more direct references we've made to Tolkien's Catholicism so far. Music is by Doctor Turtle. Thanks, man!

Minisode: Elrond, Aragorn, and Arwen

We talked about it at about 18:30-23.30 in part 2 of the Istari episode, and now we're going to the LIzzadro Museum of Lapidary Arts! We're going to try something new out and give you a little podcast slice of life by recording our reactions afterward. Not sure when we'll post it, but you'll see it come out as usual. Stay tuned!

Announcement – We’re going to the Lizzadro!

In this, final installment of our discussion on the istari, we get to Gandalf and Saruman. We discuss Saruman’s jealousy of Gandalf, what REALLY happened with Gandalf and the balrog, and the lost istari… Tim and Dirk.   1:24 Istari were brought in to work against Sauron 1:35 Dan didn’t know they were immortal 2:20 In D&D, a wizard isn’t an immortal being, it’s just a person that knows spells 3:15 Gandalf in the shire 3:40 Gandalf using a D&D spell of charm/domination against Bilbo 4:30 Gandalf doing things a normal person shouldn’t be able to. 5:12 Gandalf fighting the balrog, he disappears and reappears and then he doesn’t want to talk about it #wizardstuff 5:30 Gandalf’s description of balrog fight 6:20 Gandalf’s disappearance not understood as a death. Get back in there! You’re the only one paying attention! 7:20 Gandalf’s obviously a wizard because he’s fighting other wizards like Sauron and Saruman. 8:00 Can he fight the balrog because of the ring? He’s pretty powerful, he could take him! 8:21 What even is a staff? ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 8:30 Sauron is a wizard? Bring a wizard to fight him. Can’t sneak up on the eye. 9:00 If you come at a wizard directly, you get a fireball to the face! Or a Nazgûl to the face. Summon: Nazgûl, spiders, orcs, troll 9:33 Dominate: others spell is extremely powerful 9:47 Did Saruman think he could win a battle of will against Sauron? 10:04 How did the people of middle earth see the wizards? Guys that know stuff. 10:30 Círdan knew who they were when they arrived. Quoth Círdan... “Ohai Guys!” 11:00 Some people know, mostly… nope 11:40 Gandalf listening to the wind 12:10 Caradhras = least bad path 12:20 Is Wormtongue an apprentice? Nah. Dan made that up. 13:00 Advisor to Théoden because people trust Saruman. He planted Wormtongue, but Wormtongue doesn’t have powers. 14:10 Saruman and Wormtongue in the shire/edoras 15:20 Guys with magic? Nope! Other thing! 15:58 Dan knew Gandalf was a Maia but didn’t apply it contextually 16:15 When he figured it all out, it explained to him that Gandalf died when he fought the balrog. 16:34 Otherwise, thought he was just makin’ stuff up! Gandalf beat the mini boss, leveled up, got new gear, and now he can fight Saruman. 17:30 Gandalf is the jerk that sends the party away and claims all the loot and experience points. Frank the balrog! 18:00 What’s the story Frank? 18:13 Hot dogs for balrogs 18:28 We don’t want to know what balrogs want. 18:45 Sauron is not an Istari?!?! Aren’t they just maia sent by a vala? Nope! 19:10 Istari means a thing 19:19 Bringer of hot dogs to balrogs? 19:33 It means wizard. 20:04 Istari is an order of Maia. There are some that didn’t leave valinor. 20:33 It’s not just these 5. Erica starts humming for no reason while Dan loses his mind for a while. 20:49 Number unknown but 5 chiefs came to the northeast of middle earth. UT p 389 there may be more. 21:26 Saruman is the chief of the order according to Gandalf. The order=all Istari! 21:40 When Gandalf breaks the staff, Saruman mentions the staffs of the 5 wizards. Do only 5 have staffs? 22:07 What do staffs do?!?! Breaking them? Collecting them? *if you know anything about this let us know so Erica can research it! 22:24 Norse mythology. Erica will read it someday… 22:34 Gandalf has a different reputation everywhere he goes. 23:26 In the shire he’s a benign troublemaker 23:48 Guess what? Erica loves Sam. 24:00 Gandalf thought of differently in different places, like Rivendell 24:21 Elrond’s attitude toward Gandalf 24:38 Elrond seems unhappy to see him. Is that Elrond or just Hugo Weaving’s acting? 25:03 Gandalf’s activities mean change. Sauron falling, the destruction of the ring may cause the other rings to lose power. The elves power diminishing. 26:58 Maybe Gandalf is more powerful than Saruman.

The Istari – Part 3

In this second part of our Istari episode, we get WAY off topic… or are we just doing some holistic detective work to get where we needed to be? We discuss a little bit about the less known wizards, Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando. Dan defends a choice made by Peter Jackson in the Hobbit movies (what!?), he talks about how the Istari figure into the game Shadow of Mordor, and we both get distracted, Radagast style, by Dirk Gently.     1:10 what were each of them doing? 1:34 What were they sent for? 1:50 Erica’s not particular about language 2:10 Sent to combat Sauron 2:40 Radagast saw bunnies and trees and gave up. 3:00 Hobbit movies, Peter McRadagast is he an abomination or an eccentric failure? 3:23 Was sent to fight great evil, but lost interest because bunnies are so darn cute! 4:00 Look at the BONES! 4:48 Peter McRadagast - Dan’s reaction 5:18 There’s no question… THAT guy is definitely Radagast! 5:40 The rabbit sled *eyeroll* 6:30 In defense of Peter McRadagast 7:30 Broad appeal/comedic effect 8:35 One of the least powerful of the Istari, or more powerful because of influence with animals? 9:15 Ged from Ursula LeGuin’s Earthsea novels is a good example of wizards utilizing nature powers. 9:40 Radagast failed at protecting nature too. 9:56 Yavanna’s controls didn’t work so well in Isengard. Radagast turned a blind eye while Saruman ripped things up and the ents ignored him for a good, long time. But when they noticed, it was pretty effective. 10:40 The blue istari were Oromë’s not a lot of info about them. 11:15 Possibly responsible for magic cults after Sauron’s fall. 11:44 Shadow of Mordor has blue istari artifacts (Dan keeps saying Shadow of War, but it’s not). 12:18 The star chart and the two istari statue 12:55 The Sea of Núrnen is in the southern part of Mordor. 13:40 - DAN GET LINKS TO THE ARTIFACTS SO PEOPLE CAN SEE THEM! OK! I did it! The Weathered Azurite Figureine, The Two Istari ~and~ Star Chart 14:15 Dan reads the script for the audio from the star chart in Shadow of Mordor. 15:38 Why did Erica find this so interesting? 16:00 Istari/Vala associations, who was Pallando hanging out with in Valinor? 16:10 Nienna and Mandos. Destiny in Sandman! 17:20 The blue istari give up. 17:44 How would they have even made these things? 18:30 The blue carving of the istari. 18:56 There are 2 blue istari that went south, 2 guys with staffs, carved from blue stone. 19:38 Alatar is always associated with Oromë 21:00 The power of Sauron’s dominating will causes despair. 21:41 Game designers decided that the blue istari were doing what they were supposed to, but were destroyed by Sauron. 22:14 Tolkien implies that the blue istari started magic cults, were possibly turned by Sauron. 22:55 The 2 istari figurine 23:25 What was it for? Lizzadro Lapidary Arts Museum 24:24 Description of figurine from game. 25:21 Text from game describing how the blue istari are hunting the darkness. Insisted on being together. 26:17 So you want to read Tolkien - was it 2 maia that came to Middle Earth in the form of 2 people. 27:27 Good job Shadow of Mordor designers! 27:55 The blue istari as Dirk Gently. Sauron was defeated. How do you know they weren’t the reason? If they are holistic detectives, they could have been the ones that did it! 28:37 Erica’s shrugging but you can’t see it. 29:53 Erica’s librarianing! 30:33 Which vala is in Dirk Gently’s refrigerator? It’s judgy, keeper of halls of the dead, mysterious, forgets nothing, and knows all. MANDOS! 31:07 Did the contents of the fridge make the blue istari give up their quest?   References: Links to the Shadow of Mordor wiki: The Weathered Azurite Figureine, The Two Istari ~and~ Star Chart   All music is by the amazing Doctor Turtle! Feel free to show him some love. So You Want to Read Tolkien can be found here.

hubhopper

Fifth Age Podcast: Tolkien Stories

hubhopper