Kyle Potter, Executive Editor at Thrifty Traveler, all-around awesome(ly smart) dude, Hello Kitty enthusiast (well, it's that EVA Air flight, you'll see!), and (very) long time Layovers listener and friend, tells us all about why MSP is the best thing ever, like everything in Minnesota — but also whether cheap travel is still possible in the current era of airfare inflation (yes!), whether passenger rights will ever be a thing in the US (maybe), whether boarding groups will ever be abandoned (forget it). We debate the wilderness where having no status means real freedom (that status, the warm blanket you're sure you need, right?), the crazy valuations of US loyalty programs (and airlines wanted to spin them off? HOW WOULD THEY MAKE MONEY lol, it's as if they're banks that happen to own planes), the devaluation of those programs (non-travel Covid has something to do with it), the importance of alliances and joint ventures in the current air travel era. And yes, for once, we touch upon the world of air miles programs a bit more, and its nearly MLM-esque ecosystem in the USA. As Kyle is a Delta fan (and captive!), we ask him: Why are they so good (that padding!), and how is that new Delta One seat (hint: we're all aligning in saying doors aren't really something we value).Oh, and ORD doesn't get a lot of love, LOL.  Nearly two hours of great fun, whilst learning quite a bit (Alex and Paul learnt a lot).You can follow Kyle on Twitter (please do):https://twitter.com/kpottermnHis writings are on:https://thriftytraveler.comOf note, he wrote about the EVA Air Hello Kitty flight he took here:https://thriftytraveler.com/reviews/flights/15-hours-eva-air-hello-kitty/and a great guide on how to find cheap travel via Google Flights:https://thriftytraveler.com/guides/google-flights/Layovers will return in August (when Alex does). 

Layovers - Air Travel podcast

130 MSP - Cheap travel and the hamster wheel of miles and status in the post-Covid devaluation times, with Kyle 'Hello Kitty' Potter

We flew to Geneva to record an episode of Attaché (now on YouTube, link below), so how were our flights, and what did we think of the airport (the new C-Gates are excellent, the time at immigration not always). Does too much info add unnecessary travel stress? (Aka Flighty is Paul's IFE of choice in lounges). Is Covid wear and tear a thing? Some aircraft interiors look older than they should. Dublin airport can be frustrating, but it's pretty much forgiven when you can see one of the most famous airplanes in the world next to you. The 380 is an absolute winner in those times of constraints, the 777X could be too (come on, when???), but its new window dimming is what we'll have to settle for now. The new security machines are awesome, unless you shoot film (yes, you know, rolls of film in cameras, the youth won't know what we're talking about), and a photographer friend has some update on that front. Some LCY & Cityflyer love, but "that stupid goddamn piece of crap building that I'm sure is really important to the operation of the airport blocks the view" (HAHAHAHAHA). We both sing in unisson: BA is improving. Undercover flight attendant CEO, whilst Starlux's saves the day (but might get a fine). Did passengers gain weight during Covid? We have the answer (for Europe at least). Apple Vision Pro, the new IFE (Vomit Pro or not?). Remembering Brian Shul.Lots more stories, from Japan to terminal pubs (morning beer anyone?).And whilst we always forget to link stuff in those show notes, for sure go watch Attaché with Alex and Paul:https://youtu.be/0z4pNTXEN3U

129 GVA - Attaché bromance, Air Force Ones, 777X windows, fly with film, Covid weight, Vomit Pro, Brian Shul

Do you have a number? The saga of Alex trying to beat boarding time at Lisbon (you won't believe he, of all people, made that mistake). A completely charming SWISS cheese board on-board (and cows in the Zurich airport train). Etihad 2.0 are quietly great, a tasteful experience we appreciate (and flying over the Arabian Gulf is a sight to be seen), plus they're now about making money (err, shouldn't it have been the case since the start?). The "Etihad Lounge, The House of the Name of the House of the Lounge of Etihad and Other Airlines that are associated with us, but not really, and we are a good lounge, Lounge" is no more, but Alex isn't sure where he was anyway. A prescient Careem driver takes Alex to the Midfield Terminal, a mirage in a Star Wars movie (will it finally open this December??), but for the moment, the 1970s airport stays your only choice (T3 was opened in 2009, but feels way older). Saudi Arabia is launching a second flag carrier, and another airline, and expansion of airports, and like wow. Floating at 40'000 feet in silence (but with Flightradar). A new A380 UK-based carrier, are they for real? A lounge within a lounge, but it's Louis Vuitton. Super Mario Bros Warp Zones in Madrid.

128 AUH - Etihad 2.0, Midfield mirage, Swiss cheeseboard, 40000ft silent floating, Louis Vuitton lounging

Alex gets lost at JFK T8, only to encounter crazy turbulences over the Atlantic (a future worsening trend). But how did he get there? Finally testing what Paul did in 2021, the Mint Studio — a hope for the future of long haul narrow bodies. Airfare prices are way up from 2019 (more than inflation!), is that temporary, or what prices will be, and should always have been (that's the opinion of AirAsia's founder), so, please, JetBlue, don't Norwegian it! When you call BA, you will get quoted different fees and taxes every time, just keep calling (but who calls in 2023??). Also, DO YOU KNOW WHAT AIRLINE YOU WORK FOR?Our proposal: play musical chairs in lounges and every five minutes, you have to get up and give somebody else your seat (just keep the ceiling intact, unlike in Paul's sound studio).  

127 JFK T8 - Mint Studio wow, airfare inflation, BEY dual time, increased turbulences, why do you go to a lounge?

How is it we had never actually done MAD as an episode title? This ends today, however the mad MADrid dash from T4S to T4 never does. Alex has lots to say about BA and it's …not great (he's not alone to think like this). Paul calls it, the better London airport is definitively Gatwick (stop being a wannabe posh by preferring LHR). Lufthansa introduces a grand new First Class, and a super complex Tetris business class with 14+ options (Swiss introduces the same, but in bordeaux). Will Dolomiti be folded into ITA (the ever growing Lufthansa Group realm of the European skies). Emirates is the Apple of airlines, you might not love them but they offer incredible consistency at massive scale, truly admirable (DXB could do with a bit of a refresh though). You know what, you can fly the 747-400 to Palma (BE QUICK, BEFORE THE 744 ERA ENDS).We mentioned (and promised to link) those two:The worst airport in the world (by Jo Ellison, in the FT, paywall possible, I'M SORRY, JO, FOR MISNAMING YOUR LAST NAME!!!!), andThe DISGRACEFUL State of British Airways (by Nonstop Dan, on YouTube).See you again for 127, and, in the meanwhile, please give us any feedback on Twitter or Instagram  (and Apple Podcasts if you're inclined to give us a nice review).

126 MAD - Mad dash at MADrid, skip the JAL banana, BA/LHR chagrin, Lufthansa seat Tetris, Emirates is Apple

The airport you think is overrated, the airport you like, the airport you love, the airport you feel yourself in, the airport you need to visit — play the airport game with us (and feel free to tweet us your answers!). The new Air France lounge at CDG T2F is beautiful, as can be CDG …when it works (you'll probably need to taxi on a country drive to get there haha). The new lounges at JFK T8, the new of BA in New York, feel like a success (and clever naming!). The end of the 747 production line triggers memories for the both of us (a crazy typhoon for Alex, a cramped Combi for Paul, a sense of place for both). A renewed joie de vivre by flying Air France (is Transavia the legitimate child of KLM though?). Flying the OG Norwegian, riding the good old Acela, and a French guillotine in the 777.

125 CDG T2 - The 747 is forever, a London NY bridge at JFK T8, Air France lounge joie de vivre, 777 guillotine, the airport game

Friend of the show, and very long time listener (since episode 1!), Hakan Yılmaz, aka @LAFlyr on Twitter, grew up wanting to go early at the airport to see the planes, and collect avgeek paraphernalia, and never stopped being a kid, by still going early to the airport to see the planes, and a career that led him to American Airlines, Turkish Airlines, Virgin Atlantic, Atlas, etc., with millions of miles under his belt, and tons of stories to share — from the admirable rise of Turkish Airlines (fascinating SAS story on the invention of the hub and spoke model), to the celebrity stories at Virgin (do you carry money when traveling but nothing else? Or lots of LV luggage instead? Reach out to us!), from over-complicating airline operations (which airline is it, do you reckon?) to the uncomplicated life as loyalty programs free agents (the three of us are becoming so, though it's a mental fight to let go), we geek out and rant and laugh, we get the in and outs of LAX (that's Hakan's pun), and thank you all for still listening to us in 2023.Follow Hakan on Twitter: @LAFlyr

124 LAX — In and out LAX, the rise of Turkish Airlines, frequent flyer free agents, airline consulting, LA celebrity handling, with Hakan aka LAFlyr

Ed Parsons, the Google Maps guy, is our guest today. He's heard the Concorde prototype noise as a kid, flown on the Concorde before it got retired, explored all the Concordes in existence around the world since — a true fan — and we discuss it all, from the history to the conspiracy theories, to a certain nostalgia about a future that's now in the past.  He is also a GGL, Gold Guest List, the (almost) top tier British Airways status, which gives him access to the exclusive Concorde Rooms (yes, there's more than one), and we learn about more the extra perks, whilst we discuss the not-exactly-great state of current BA, and Heathrow.  Ed tells us about the many Air Shows he's toured (and photographed!), and of the amazing BRR beach airport (Otter it is, but no Maldives temperatures). Thank you SO MUCH, Ed!You can find Ed on:https://www.edparsons.comhttps://twitter.com/edparsonsAnd check his photographs on:https://photos.edparsons.comhttps://www.instagram.com/edparsons/Thank you all for your graciousness in 2022, we love having you as listeners.Happy New Year, and see you in 2023!! 

123 BRR — Flying the Concorde, visiting all the Concordes, accessing the Concorde Room, a Concorde episode with GGL Ed Parsons

Alex has a joyful experience to Oslo with Norse Atlantic Airways (he flies to Stockholm too, the Nordics know how to handle snow, whilst the UK clearly doesn't). Finland sees record traffic to meet Santa Claus, whilst Air Greenland celebrates a new 330neo. France says NO short haul flights, the EU says YES to mobile networks in flight, the UK says NO MORE to liquid security limits. Doha opens a massive new airport garden, says Singapore stole their idea. Can someone remember Florence Airport, or Pisa Airport, for us? (The Pisa lounge is miserable, no need to tell Paul). Is there a fast track trick at Heathrow transfers?  The revolution: a lounge with a nacho cheese dispenser!!Be excellent to each other.(We covered Oslo OSL in episode 032, and Stockholm ARN in episode 99)

122 FLR — Joyful Norse, Doha Changi Gardens, in-flight 5G, A380 returns, Avios loot boxes, limitless UK liquids, nacho cheese lounge

"What are you going to Saudi Arabia for?" asked the puzzled flight attendant — Paul was flying to Jeddah, to then drive 8 hours, to reach one of the places of his dreams: the Nabataeans tombs of Al-'Ula. From sand to copper, the massive new Jeddah terminal is impressive, and big, and really big, and has the highest airport tower in the world, and they even built an …aquarium (!?)No champagne, broken seat and flimsy IFE — is Emirates still what it used to be? (Yes, and no).An X never marks the spot, how travel is about dealing with ambiguity too (and …“we named the dog Indiana”). (Yes, we talk about the World Cup too)

121 JED — Flying to Saudi Arabia to see AlUla, Jeddah airport aquarium, Emirates cost cutting, desert driving, Indy travel philosophy

Alex needed to be in Quebec City, so he obviously flew to Montreal — that made him try Air Transat (is that a controversial airline, Canadian friends?). Our friend Greg sadly never got to fly WestJet however …and Paul still hasn't been to Canada. Qatar is getting ready for a massive amount of daily shuttle flights for the FIFA World Cup (1.5 million fans expected, they're a country of barely 3m!). IAG wants Avios to go beyond BA and QR, but would any other airline be really interested? No AirTags allowed: Lufthansa wants to be left alone losing your luggage. Virgin and Alaska are fighting over a trademark that isn't being used (huh?). Virgin does a Upper First class with the Retreat Suite on the 330-900neo, a perfect bed for Presidents and Prime Ministers ;-)

120 YUL — World Cup flights, Avios stash, Alaska royalty, Nein to AirTags, Upper First Class, Trudeau Dorval or Mirabel

Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad, three cities, three cultures, and three airports that correspond them well — Paul flies in and around Pakistan (flying out was not a given on one of those trips!). The retro liveries of PIA and QR. Japan opens up on October 11th, ticket prices skyrocket, also as the USD rises against pretty much every other currency, making flying more expensive to many. The NOTAMs for the Queen passing (LGW went full radio silent!). United and Emirates integrate, and Virgin finally joins SkyTeam. Alex gets plusgraded to Upper Class (just after a status match, HOW DOES HE DO IT?!)

119 KHI — Flying in and around Pakistan, Queen NOTAMs, Japan rush, United x Emirates, ticket inflation, Virgin plusgrade, Argo escape

No, the other La Paz — the Southern/Baja California Alex Hunter 2022 Tour, with Megan as a VERY supporting avgeek act (aka Alex is the supporting act, Megan is the star, but you all knew that already). Emirates refreshes its fleet on a crazy tight clockwork upgrade schedule. Air France reveals its PORTE FRANCAISE* business seats (*French door). Lufthansa loses a star, and its general shine in a summer of strikes and chaos (those Philippines Airlines aircrafts won't be enough, guys). Don't try to smuggle McMuffins in Australia, even if you had to wait hours to no end in Bali. No more fuel after United taxies EWR for 9.5 hours (is that worse or better than Vueling?). Yes, yes, Paul knows, it was a 350 on the pic he posted on Instagram, not a Dreamliner (he's going to hear about this until the end of time, won't he?).

118 LAP — Victorville overfly, 2bn Emirates refresh, Star losing Lufthansa, taxiing EWR for 9hrs, Windsor Suites, smuggling McMuffins

Alex lives and sweats the travel chaos, trying to get to Valencia with Vueling (what was he thinking?!) with an epic (FAIL) journey that ended up with Easyjet saving the day. Paul develops some Apple AirTag anxiety. The A380 is back with a vengeance, though Tim Clark wishes he had a two-engine 380, or a 350-2000, or anything BIG (meanwhile his ticket prices are soaring faster than aircrafts). COVID is kinda back too (it never left) but the travel world won't use that C-word to not jinx it all. Alitalia pilots mistake JFK for Naples at rush hour. No more BA livery in South Africa after the demise of Comair, but BA has more issues to think about for now (ground personnel strikes, fuel delivery strikes, and more strikes, on top of staff shortages). Also, in which country is Corsica?Enjoy nearly two hours of #avgeek stories between Alex and Paul — not sure when we'll record next, Alex being in holidays, but hopefully sometime before end-July. 

117 VLC - Summer of discontent, Alitalia hit-and-run, AirTag anxiety, A380 comeback, so long Comair, Vuelinggedon

Brace brace brace, travel chaos ahead — from staff shortages, to strikes, to supply chain issues, to a global recession, it's going to be a messy year (and more) ahead. The mess will however make for an interesting wet-lease global puzzle (Mel Air for Air Nostrum as Iberia??), and the experience of using buses instead of airplanes (not sure how we think about that one). Tim Clark is becoming increasingly impatient with the ever-expanding delays at Boeing, and Al Baker wishes he didn't have to put the 380s back in service (that makes us happy!). Alex sleeps his way to Bogota and back, and tells us all about flying to Medellin. Also, did you know there's a 747 parked in Valencia airport that has racked up over 200 million Euros in fines? And that there's a Pret Index?The turbulence forecast website is: https://turbli.com

116 MDE - Brace for travel chaos, turbulence forecast, Medellin missed approach, 747-200m fine, air-bus routes, cascading wet leases

The Air Travel podcast — an aviation and travel show, created by Paul Papadimitriou @papadimitriou, hosted along with Alex Hunter @cubedweller — top #1 in 47 countries and counting.

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Layovers - Air Travel podcast

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