Robert Levy is a Real Estate Expert and Managing Partner at LBX investments. LBX Investments is a diversified commercial real estate investment firm that prides itself in its proprietary, research-driven approach to identifying and investing opportunistically in mispriced assets. Their experience runs the gamut across a number of different property types including, but not limited to, retail, multifamily, and hotels.     Quote: “Our goal is to own good real estate in the right markets.” “This is why we like retail…there’s a high barrier to entry not to get into the market but to do well in the market.” Highlights: 01:35 - Robert tells listeners more about his background in real estate. 02:52 - Robert dives into retail investments and his business. 06:30 - Robert discusses portfolio performance and covid-19. 10:50 - Robert talks about debt and deals in retail investments. 14:43 - Robert provides insight into his company’s long-term, capital raises and strategy. 25:22 - Robert touches on what it’s like to bring investments up to value. 27:55 - Robert explains the renovations made to one of his company’s investments. 30:45 - Robert answers Kevin’s golden nugget question. Guest Website: https://www.lbxinvestments.com/ Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity –  Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors  Click Here  to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

Real Estate Investing for Cash Flow with Kevin Bupp

#396: Retail Investments, Debt, Deals, and so much more! - with Robert Levy

Today's Flash Back Friday Episode is from Episode #163 that originally aired in December of 2017. Danny Newberry is the founder and CEO of Value Investment Group since 2008. At Value Investment Group our target investments include multi-family, retail, and office investments that provide capital preservation, forced equity appreciation, and cash distribution, while simultaneously allowing for tax-advantaged investing for our partners. Our core strategy concentrates on identifying and acquiring opportunistic acquisitions of under-performing or under-capitalized investment properties with value add components. We unlock the intrinsic value of these commercial assets through a combination of in-depth underwriting, sound financing strategies, calculated renovations, aggressive management, and a strong focus on measurable sustainability. Learn About Investment and Partnership Opportunities with Kevin and His Team  Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity – Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors Click Here to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#395 FBF: Uncovering Great Opportunities and Building Massive Wealth in Value-Add Commercial Real Estate - with Danny Newberry

 Today's Mobile Home Park Episode is from Episode #88 that originally aired on July 31, 2018.  Learn About Investment and Partnership Opportunities with Kevin and His Team  Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity – Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors Click Here to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   Artwork

#394 MHP: How to Create a Steady Stream of MHP Deals From Brokers…Even If You’re Brand New or Have No Track Record – Part 1 of Our Special 3-Part Series

Andrew Abernathey is a real estate investment and self-storage expert. Andrew is the Chairman & Founder of Abernathey Holdings, a Class A self-storage development firm that has capitalized on vertical integration from inception to completion and all the way through to the day-to-day operations. Andrew began investing at the age of 13 with only $4,000.00. Now, at age 27, he has turned that $4,000.00 into an investment company with more than $100 million in assets. Quote: “The other thing is competition and land-lock. I’m okay with spending 20% premium to make sure there’s not a bunch of ground around us that can come in and compete.” “We are in the land business it just so happens that our storage facilities might sit on these for 100 years, but really it’s the land…I just need to make sure that all the decisions that are made, at the end of the day, it’s the dirt that lasts.” Highlights: 01:47 - Andrew tells listeners more about his background in real estate. 06:33 - Andrew dissects one of his first deals and when he first started investing. 10:14 - Andrew discusses the reasoning why he created his own brand. 12:00 - Andrew talks about his company’s decision to run with a national brand. 18:07 - Andrew provides insight into his company’s long-term plan. 23:06 - Andrew offers some advice to his younger self. 25:06 - Andres dives into the other company’s he has vertically integrated into his public storage development company. Guest Website: http://www.andrewabernathey.com/ https://abernatheyholdingco.com/ Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity –  Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors  Click Here  to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#393: Self-Storage, Ground-Up Development, and so much more!- with Andrew Abernathy

Today's Flash Back Friday Episode is from Episode #144 that originally aired in May of 2017. Our guest for this week’s show is Family Office manager, Richard Wilson In today’s show, we’re going to be speaking with Richard about his involvement in the family office space. More specifically, we’ll discuss how to tap into the funding opportunities that exist within the family office space. Are you a real estate syndicator who is looking for private capital to fund a deal? If so, family offices need to be at the top of your list as a potential source of capital, and during this call, Richard will share with us everything we need to know to tap into this space.  Here’s What You’ll Learn: What a family office is and how you can leverage them as a source of funding for your RE deals What kind of Real Estate deals family offices are seeking How to find a list with contact information for every family office in the country The minimum deal size that the typical family office looks for How to network with the local family offices in your area The art of the deal pitch as it relates to Family Offices The two books that have had the biggest impact on his life and business and why he feels every business owner should own them Learn About Investment and Partnership Opportunities with Kevin and His Team  Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity – Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors Click Here to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#392 FBF: How To Access Billionaire Investors Who are Looking to Fund Your Deals - Today We Dive Into the Topic of Family Offices and How They Can Be Great Sources of Funding For Your Deals

Today's Mobile Home Park Episode is from Episode #75 that originally aired on July 12, 2017.  Learn About Investment and Partnership Opportunities with Kevin and His Team  Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity – Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors Click Here to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#391 MHP: The 4 Core Competencies That You Must Master in Order to Successfully Operate a Mobile Home Park

Feras Moussa is a real estate investment expert. Feras is a tried and true entrepreneur at heart with a tech background. With a computer science degree from the University of Texas, he went to work at Microsoft straight after college. Feras later resigned from Microsoft to ‘bring tech to industries that lack it,’ where he later found his passion for real estate. Feras quickly built a portfolio of rentals, completing 9 closings in his first 12 months.  After having seen the results of rentals, Feras later decided to scale up into apartment complexes, where he met Ben and started Disrupt Equity, a company focused on multi-family acquisition and investments for investors.  Quote: “A smart seller is someone who basically sets up the business plan for the next buyer, you want to give them a clear path to what they can do and really help them to build the story.” “One of the mistakes that we made early on was that we were using third-party accounting.” “Don't just be the guy that just gets an email and doesn’t ask any questions and tries to go underwrite it –– you are not going to succeed.” Highlights: 02:28 - Feras tells listeners more about his background in real estate. 05:40 - Feras dissects one of his first deals and what he learned about lending. 10:40 - Feras discusses the company that bought his first deal. 13:39 - Feras talks about his company’s vertical integration. 16:10 - Feras provides insight into critical hires he made after starting his management vertical. 17:45 - Feras touches on the cons of in-house property management. 19:25 - Feras dives into acquisitions, how his company is tracking good deals, and his 2022 business strategy. 29:13 - Feras answers Kevin’s golden nugget question. 32:27 - Feras offers some advice to new investors. Guest Website: https://www.disruptequity.com/ Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity –  Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors  Click Here  to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#390: Lending, Property Management, and so much more!- with Feras Moussa

Today's Flash Back Friday Episode is from Episode #125 that originally aired in September of 2016. In this week's show we’ll be speaking with commercial real estate developer and investor, Allan Glass. Allan is what I like to refer to as an “opportunistic investor” and specializes in seeking out incredible investment opportunities within transitional markets. Unlike myself, Allan doesn’t focus on just one asset type, rather he invests in whatever is in high demand and will provide him and his firm a significant return on their investment. I’m positive that you’ll find a ton of value and inspiration in our show with Allan.  Here’s what you’ll learn in today's show: How he got his start in the real estate business and dealt with learning the business during the real estate downturn of the early 1990s Why he focuses on neighborhood-scale developments in areas that are already transitioning but not yet fully realized. The reasons he considers himself an opportunistic investor and doesn’t like to specifically focus on one asset type. Why he prefers to focus on “getting in and out” of a property versus holding on for long-term cash flow, which is our preference. Why he recommends that new investors focus on finding great opportunities and believe that if the deal is strong enough, the money will chase after it. How to identify all the “what if” scenarios and map out a well-aligned investment plan when dealing with partners and investors The opportunity his team recently saw in a 25,000 sq. ft. industrial building and are currently working to reposition this manufacturing space into a highly desirable biotech space for growing companies. How to uncover opportunities by identifying a higher and better use and repositioning the property to fit those uses. And much, much more…. Learn About Investment and Partnership Opportunities with Kevin and His Team  Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity – Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors Click Here to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#389 FBF: Repositioning Industrial Commercial Properties in Transitional Highly Sought Out Markets for Huge Profits

Today's Mobile Home Park Episode is from Episode #62 that originally aired on April 13, 2017.  Learn About Investment and Partnership Opportunities with Kevin and His Team  Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity – Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors Click Here to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#388 MHP: How To Identify Unstable Income Sources on a Profit and Loss Statement and Avoid Overpaying

Sam Bates is a real estate investment expert. Sam is a principal of Trinity Capital Group and owner of Paradigm Real Estate Investments. Sam’s background is in financial services, state and local taxes, and real estate. He has been directly involved in the acquisition, rehabilitation, and management of over $200MM in multifamily and single-family assets since 2009.  Quote: “Build-to-rent is a very hot topic right now…it can be great, but if we do a build-to-rent we’re definitely going to sell it within 3-5 years. I think if you hold it 10, 15, 20 years there are going to be a lot of maintenance costs that are significantly higher than an apartment.” “I think the pros of buying existing are that you have basically 60 days to close and you can own an asset.” Highlights: 01:48 - Sam tells listeners more about his background in real estate. 06:00 - Sam dissects one of his first deals and why they had to kick out their GP. 06:52 - Sam discusses his company’s business plan and his long-term strategy. 14:19 - Sam talks about long-term strategies for development projects. 15:28 - Sam provides insight into the biggest challenges to scaling the development side of his business. 17:23 - Sam touches on the pros and cons of multifamily development vs buying existing. 24:20 - Sam answers Kevin’s golden nugget question. 31:40 - Sam offers some advice to new investors. Guest Website: batescapitalgroup.com Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity –  Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors  Click Here  to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#387: Build-to-Rent, Development Strategies, and so much more!- with Sam Bates

Today's Flash Back Friday Episode is from Episode #102 that originally aired in February of 2016. Our guest for this week’s show is Commercial Real estate Investment Expert, Al Klairmont.  Al has more than 38 years of industry experience and a long track record of success in the Chicago area. In today’s show, Al shares with us the core philosophies and investment strategies that have played a major role in getting him to where he is today. Al and his group currently own 100 Office, Retail, and Industrial properties in the Chicago area with more than 10 million square feet of leasable space. If that doesn’t impress you then how about if I told you that out of all 100 properties he only has very minimal leverage or debt and owns most of it free and clear with no outside equity partners.  In this show with Al you’re going to learn: How he got his start in the Real Estate business after college and the valuable lessons he learned by managing his father’s small commercial rental portfolio. Why he attributes a large piece of his success to the brilliant staff he has surrounded himself with at Imperial Realty. How Al has adapted over time to the changing real estate cycles which have allowed him and his company the ability to prosper both in up and down markets. The philosophy which he adopted from his father in which they implement an accelerated pay down plan to all properties they acquire and how this has proven a successful model through the numerous decades. Why does his group caters towards distressed value-add commercial properties versus stabilized properties. The numerous reasons he feels that the office building sector is by far the most difficult to own and operate efficiently and is the exact reason why he and his team like distressed value-add office deals. Why he feels that you should never buy based on the current performance of a given property but more so how the property will perform in the future. Why he feels very strongly that if you want something done correctly then you need to supervise the person or persons responsible for completing the task or project. The reasons he suggests that all Real Estate professionals need to become masters at the art of sales and negotiation. And much more Learn About Investment and Partnership Opportunities with Kevin and His Team  Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity – Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors Click Here to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#386 FBF: CRE Industry Veteran of 38 Years Shares the Success Formula he’s Used to Acquire More Than 10 Million sq. ft. of Real Estate in Chicago– with Al Klairmont

Today's Mobile Home Park Episode is from Episode #36 that originally aired on Nov 22, 2016.  Learn About Investment and Partnership Opportunities with Kevin and His Team  Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity – Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors Click Here to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#385 MHP: Your Mobile Home Park Investment Questions Answered - Part 1

Michael is a 34-year commercial real estate veteran with a proven track record that consists of over $600M+ real estate transactions. He’s a widely known industry expert on Retail Real Estate and Net Lease properties.  Michael’s investment interests have run the gamut and have included Institutional partnerships, insurance companies, family offices, hedge funds, and foreign investment funds.  Lastly, Michael is a published author and the co-host of the “nothing but net” podcast.   Quote: “A net-lease property is also known as a triple net property, and it's also known as nnn or net-net-net property…the tenant pays not only rent, but the tenant also pays for the taxes, the tenant pays for the insurance, and for the maintenance.” “One of the reasons why we named the podcast ‘Nothing But Net’ is because if you own a triple net property or a net lease property you get nothing but net income…they’re probably the most passive type of real estate investments you can own.” Highlights: 01:55 - Michael tells listeners more about his background in real estate. 04:25 - Michael shares what a net-lease property is. 06:52 - Michael discusses the important aspects when evaluating good and bad deals. 11:01 - Michael talks about locations and acquisitions. 15:07 - Michael provides insight into the risks of net-lease investments. 19:45 - Michael touches on malls as net-lease investments. 23:50 - Michael explains the debt in retail for lenders during the pandemic. 25:43 - Michael talks about cap rates in his market. 32:55 - Michael dives into his fund and block chain technology. 41:55 - Michael answers Kevin’s golden nugget question. Guest Website: https://libertyfund.io/ https://blockchainrealestatesummit.com/ https://michaeljflight.com/ Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity –  Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors  Click Here  to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#384: Net-lease Properties, Block Chain, and so much more!- with Michael Flight

 Today's Flash Back Friday Episode is from Episode #87 that originally aired in September of 2015. Our guest for this week’s show is Real Estate veteran and best-selling author, Jack Cummings.  In today's show, we're going to speak with Jack about his business, what he’s learned (and forgotten) over his 50+ years in the business, and why he doesn’t plan on stopping anytime soon. Jack’s experience spans just about every type of commercial real estate investing niche you can think of. From land investing to ground-up development to repositioning apartment properties…and just about everything in-between.  In this show you’re going to learn: How he got his start after college by working with a hotel developer in Spain prior to moving back to the United States and starting his own real estate company. How he’s made huge profits by purchasing raw land and changing its approved use and then selling to a developer and why he feels this is still a very viable way to make big bucks in commercial real estate. Why he never worries about inflation and why he feels it’s a real estate investor's best friend. The lessons he learned during the savings and loan crisis of the late ’80s and early ’90s and how he was able to thrive during these tough economic times. How to get the inside scoop of where development is going and what projects are currently in the works in your local market by meeting with the local planning department and attending city council meetings. The lessons he learned from a partnership that went south and how he could have avoided it altogether. Why it’s necessary to first have the passion before you can expect to make money as a real estate investor. Why performing due diligence is of no value unless you know exactly what you need to know before starring your due diligence on a property. And much more... Learn About Investment and Partnership Opportunities with Kevin and His Team  Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity – Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors Click Here to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#383 FBF: Wisdom & Insights shared by Commercial Real Estate Investment Veteran – Jack Cummings

Today's Mobile Home Park Episode is from Episode #15 that originally aired on July 29, 2016.  Learn About Investment and Partnership Opportunities with Kevin and His Team  Recommended Resources:  Check out our company and our investment opportunity by visiting www.SunriseCapitalInvestors.com  Self Directed IRA Investment Opportunity – Click Here To Learn More About How You Can Invest With Us Through Your SDIRA  Accredited Investors Click Here to learn more about partnering with me and my team on Mobile Home Park deals!  Grab a free copy of my latest book “The 21 Biggest Mistakes Investors Make When Purchasing their First Mobile Home Park…and how to avoid them MobileHomeParkAcademy.com  Schedule your free 30 minute "no obligation" call directly with Kevin by clicking this link https://www.timetrade.com/book/KV2D2   

#382 MHP: The Top 5 Ways To Increase Revenues and Add Value To Your Mobile Home Park

There are a lot of real estate podcasts out there, most of which focusing on the residential fix and flips or wholesaling, but Kevin Bupp believes there's a smarter way to build long term cash flow and generational wealth. On the Real Estate Investing For Cash Flow podcast, you'll learn firsthand how the most successful commercial real estate investors in the world have learned to leverage their multifamily and commercial properties to create a steady stream of passive income. We'll spend time with industry experts who will teach you how to take your Real Estate Investing business to the next level. Whether you're a brand new Real Estate investor or someone who's looking to make the transition into bigger and more profitable deals, this is the show for you. This is where the BIG BOY RE Investors come to play...ARE YOU READY? On our show, we'll feature industry experts and discuss topics such as: * Commercial Real Estate Investing * How to get started * Creating Passive Income from CRE * Syndication * Retail Shopping Centers * Mobile Home Parks * Medical Office * Multifamily Apartments * Industrial * Office * Self Storage * Industrial * 1031 exchanges * Development * Investing via your self directed IRA * Private Lending * How to buy your first commercial property * And much, much , more

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Real Estate Investing for Cash Flow with Kevin Bupp

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