In the past year, I’ve been talking a lot on this show about The Next Stage, my program to help senior lawyers figure out what comes next.  My guests have discussed ways that lawyers can find meaning later in their careers.  One topic that we’ve addressed is succession planning, or ways that lawyers can ensure that what they have built will live on as they scale back or exit the practice of law. In larger firms, succession planning may mean handing the reins of leadership over time to the next generation and starting a process of transitioning the clients.  For smaller firms, there may not be a deep bench ready to take over.  In those instances, lawyers may simply opt to practice until they are no longer able to because of incapacity or death.  Some lawyers will simply close their doors. But some small firms may choose another option, and that is a sale. In this episode, Tom Lenfenstey discusses selling a law practice.  Tom is a lawyer and CPA in North Carolina who runs the Law Practice Exchange where he helps senior lawyers get value from the enterprise that they have spent a lifetime building.  Tom speaks and writes regularly on the subject and is author of Designing a Succession Plan for Your Law Practice. Additional Resources Succession Planning For Your Career: What Comes Next Episode 67-Retirement By Design (for Lawyers) 

Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers

Episode 72-Selling a Law Practice With the Law Practice Exchange

There are a lot of unhappy lawyers in our profession. But when I started this podcast three years ago, it was my firm belief that there are many happy attorneys as well and we can all learn from them. In this episode, I speak with  Arivee Vargas, an attorney who really works at trying to find more fulfillment in her career. She is also someone who inspires others through her own coaching work. I met Arivee for the first time when I sat in on a career panel that was sponsored by Region I of the Hispanic National Bar Association. Arivee and her fellow panelists were all lawyers who had graduated law school around the time of the 2008 financial crisis and they had some very practical advice for law student looking for work in a pandemic.  I was blown away by her take charge attitude and her ability to demonstrate resilience in the face of adversity. This past Spring she launched The Humble Rising Podcast and I began listening.  Again I was blown away at what a what an inspiration Arivee can be.  Arivee is a first-generation lawyer who has worked in two large law firms, clerked for the First Circuit and US District Court in Massachusetts, works for a major biotech company, and has a side hustle now as a Certified Life and High-Performance Coach to professionals who are first generation and women of color.  She also manages to be mother to three young children. This is her story.

Episode 71-The Humble Rising Lawyer, Arivee Vargas

There are many efforts underway around the country to help lawyers address stress in the practice of law. Several years ago, the Report of the Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being was issued by the American Bar Association, Conference of Chief Judges, and other legal organizations.  It called well-being an essential element of a lawyer’s duty of competence. In Massachusetts, there is an organization called Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers which helps attorneys deal with substance abuse and some of the underlying causes of attorney anxiety and depression and there are similar organizations in many states. In January of 2020, The Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts created a Standing Committee on Lawyer Well-Being. The Standing Committee is charged with planning and overseeing efforts to enhance the well-being of lawyers, judges and law students in the Commonwealth and is doing a great job of educating these different constituencies. As summer is coming to a close and the pandemic rages on, I thought this was a good time to revisit the subject of attorney well-being.  And if you happen to be Jewish like me, this is generally a great time for self-reflection and thinking about the changes you want to make in your life.  So with the start of the New Year, Jewish or not, I was pleased to welcome Shailini George, a professor at Suffolk University School of Law. Shailini is someone who has thought a lot about the subject of attorney well-being and just published a book called The Law Student’s Guide to Doing Well and Being Well.  She was also co-author of Mindful Lawyering: The Key to Creative Problem Solving.  Shailini teaches legal writing  at Suffolk and focuses her scholarship on lawyer well-being, mindfulness, and the cognitive science of learning.  In this episode, we talk stress in the practice of law and about what Shailini calls distraction addiction.  She offers strategies for addressing stress and distraction in order to become a more productive, effective and happier lawyer.   Other Resources Episode 33-Mindfulness, Biofeedback, and the Practice of Law Episode 37-Managing Anxiety in a Time of Crisis Ten Percent Happier (Dan Harris, an ABC News personality, brings mindfulness to skeptics with his book, app and podcast; tons of content and a great place to start for a modest annual fee--look for discounts) 

Episode 70-Shailini George on Doing Well and Being Well in the Law

There are many paths to success in a law firm.  I’ve emphasized on this podcast that growing your practice is a good place to start.  Having your own clients gives you a sense of ownership that is hard to achieve when you are just servicing firm clients.  If you have your own book of business, there is more opportunity to focus on the work you enjoy and the clients you like.   For some, getting involved in the management of a firm is another way to find more fulfillment.  But it is not for everyone. I once heard someone say that managing a law firm is like being the only fire hydrant in a town filled with dogs. David Maister and Patrick McKenna put it another way in their book First Among Equals.  When you are running a professional services firm, you must lead through influence rather than authority. In this episode, I have a great conversation with David Rosenblatt who has been one of the longest serving Managing Partners in the Boston legal market.  He has served as Managing Partner at Burns & Levinson since 1998. During that time, David has seen a lot of changes in the practice of law and a lot of changes at his own firm. A few months ago, the firm announced that David would be stepping down from the role in 2023 and I thought it would be a great opportunity to speak to David and get him to reflect on his experience. In this episode, we talk about David’s career, the changes he has seen, what has been most fulfilling for him, what advice he has for lawyers thinking about law firm management, and a host of other topics.

Episode 69-Lessons Learned from David Rosenblatt-The Managing Partner Who Outlasted Them All

There are many ways to build a law practice.  Legal marketing is not a one size fits all. Lawyers have different personalities and interests.  Different practice areas lend themselves to different marketing techniques. Beyond this, there can be some gender differences in the way men and women approach marketing. In this episode, I speak with Lana Manganiello who has put a lot of thought into this subject.  Lana is a business development coach with Equinox Strategy Partners.  We met through our business networking group ProVisors and I’ve been learning a lot from her. Lana works with attorneys and firms to create bespoke and measurable business development strategies and actionable plans.  She truly believes business development is the key to career fulfillment in the legal profession. Recently, Lana and I were on a call with several other ProVisors members who coach attorneys. As the only woman on the call, she brought a perspective that I thought would be great to bring to Counsel to Counsel.  Lana and I talk about how she helps attorneys achieve success with her three-part plan. We then dive into the question of legal marketing and gender. Additional Resources Check out other episodes of the C2C podcast and read articles and blog posts. Visit the Resources section on my website

Episode 68-Are there Gender Differences in Legal Marketing?—What Men and Women Can Learn From Each Other About Building a Law Practice

Aging baby boomers now fill the senior ranks of many law firms across the United States. Because of this, hundreds of partnerships will be facing succession planning issues in the next decade. How can firms make successful transitions and ensure the long-term viability of their practices? How will senior partners transition their clients to younger partners, so the clients are well served in the future? How will the next generation assume responsibility for managing the firm of tomorrow? Underpinning all this is a reality: Lawyers are living longer, lawyers have very strong professional identities, and many senior lawyers are not doing a good job of planning their own transitions. A lot of lawyers have worked hard for so long that it is difficult to imagine what might fill the void if they were to leave or cut back. What will these attorneys do when they are no longer chairing a department or actively serving clients they have worked with for decades? What are some of the creative strategies that lawyers have used to figure out what comes next? My guest Ida Abbott has thought a lot about the subject and has put together a great resource for helping senior lawyers to address these challenging existential issues. On today’s show, we will be talk about her book Retirement by Design and we discuss some of the practical considerations for lawyers who are further along in their careers. Ida is a leader in the field of talent management and an internationally recognized expert in the areas of mentoring, sponsorship and the advancement of women into leadership. As a lawyer and consultant to the legal profession, she has focused on the power of mentoring relationships to guide, support and transform professional careers from the beginning of practice through retirement. Other Resources Succession Planning for Your Career: What Comes Next? Episode 62- Financial & Career Planning for Senior Attorneys Episode 61-Succession Planning With Senior Attorney Match Episode 58-Managing Your Exit (Career Succession Planning-- with Bill Lahey, Esq.) Episode 40-Succession Planning for Law Firms Meets Chapter 3 for Lawyers  

Episode 67-Retirement By Design (for Lawyers)

 For many lawyers, going in-house continues to be an attractive career option.  But the lawyers I speak to have a lot of questions about making a transition to in-house. They ask me about the timing, how to find good in-house jobs, how practicing in a corporate law department differs from private practice and how in-house jobs differ from each other.  In this episode, I speak with David Sclar who has a lot to say on the subject.  David is author of Workplace Strategies for Technology Lawyers, and he is joins me from Washington DC where he works as Healthcare Compliance and Privacy Officer for WW (formerly known as Weight Watchers.)  David began his career doing a clerkship with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court.  He worked at two AmLaw 100 firms and prior to joining WW, he spent 6 years at a healthcare company until the company was acquired.  David has a lot of wisdom to share on going in-house Additional Podcasts and Resources What I've Learned as In-House Counsel Frequently Asked Questions About Going In-House Episode 49-Adapting to Change, Pivoting to In-house and DEI in the Legal Profession Episode 39-An In-house Career in the Life Sciences 

Episode 66-Going In-house with David Sclar

 On Counsel to Counsel, I speak with attorneys and  consultants who share their advice about advancing your legal career.  We  discuss practical issues to help you build the career that you want. In recent episodes we have talked about how to build relationships in a virtual environment, how to leverage the LinkedIn platform, how to go in house, how to manage your time more effectively, and how to create a side hustle while practicing law. In this episode, we take a step back to look at much bigger existential issues (how we find meaning in our lives more broadly.) My guest, Rochelle seltzer, discusses what she calls living big. Rochelle is a Creative Core Coach and author of the acclaimed book, Live Big: A Manifesto for a Creative Life. Her mission is to unleash the untapped creative capacity inside women everywhere, so they bring all of their greatness into the world. She teaches and supports accomplished women to move past what keeps them blocked, stuck and small, to create and live their biggest, best lives. Rochelle began her career as a designer. Thirty years later she sold her firm and embarked on a new chapter, studying creativity. She wanted to unlock her own creativity — and learn to help others unblock theirs. It has been my pleasure to get to know Rochelle through my business networking group ProVisors in the last year.

Episode 65-Live Big with Rochelle Seltzer

Being a great communicator is essential to your success as a lawyer. Whether you are counseling a client, managing paralegals or associates, giving a presentation, or just trying to cultivate relationships that might lead to business, effective communication is everything to your success. If you are like me, in law school, you learned to think like a lawyer.  You cultivated your legal research and writing skills and learned to interpret the law.  When you entered the real world, you soon learned that you need a whole different set of skills to succeed.  And a lot of that has to do with how you communicate whether it is with clients, referral sources, colleagues, and other lawyers. In this episode, I speak with Donna Mac who has a lot to say on the subject of effective communication. Donna is founder and President of iVoice Communication and trains current and emerging leaders to create new, healthier communication practices so they can become influential, resilient and speak with confidence.  She teaches mindfulness techniques that her clients can use to be more present and more successful in delivering a message. I met Donna through my business networking group ProVisors and since that time I've had the chance to speak with her about my own challenges in communicating with difficult people (including family members and clients).  I’ve also heard her give great presentations on communication at the New York Public Library speaker series.

Episode 64-Building Your Practice and Your Management Skills with Mindful Communication

LinkedIn is a critical marketing tool for lawyers. This has been underscored this year as the world of in-person networking has remained largely shut down.  But as the world opens up and we find ourselves at conferences, networking functions, meeting for lunch or coffee, LinkedIn will continue to be an important tool in the marketing tool bag. In this episode episode, we do a quick dive into LinkedIn and talk about how to make the most of LinkedIn. My guest Kristyn Brophy has a lot to say about using the platform more effectively.  Kristyn has worked in-house at a number of major law firms in the Boston area .  More recently she joined Legal Internet Solutions Incorporated as Director of Client Strategy.  She is a fountain of knowledge about legal marketing, social media, and the newest platform in the social media ecosystem, Clubhouse. Additional Resources With LinkedIn, Measure Quality of Engagement not Quantity Getting Personal on LinkedIn Once in a While Episode 11-The Social Media Maven Networked: How 20 Women Lawyers Overcame the Confines of COVID-19 Social Distancing to Create Connections, Cultivate Community, & Build Businesses in the Midst of a Global Pandemic 

Episode 63-LinkedIn in 30 Minutes (with Kristyn Brophy)

This past year has been one of great reflection for many attorneys. The lawyers I speak to are thinking more about what they want from their careers and how they can find meaning in their professionals and personal lives. One group I'm particularly enjoying working with are senior lawyers who have 30 or more years of experience in practice.  The pandemic has caused this group of attorneys to think more about existential questions (What do I really want to do the next 10-15 years?  Am I ready to make a big shift? Should I cut down on my practice or leave the practice altogether and if so, how do I fill my time in meaningful ways?) Making a career transition raises a host of issues for lawyers at any stage of their career.  But financial issues are particularly salient for senior lawyers.  Do I have enough to retire?  When can I stop working full time?  How do I protect myself and my family as I go through this transition? In this episode, my guest Chris Cahill talks about these issues and provides a framework for thinking about the financial part of making a career transition.   Chris is a financial planner who is also an attorney. A lot of his clients are now attorneys and I had Chris as a guest speaker in the Fall.  Chris is much more than a money manager.  He brings a host of skills to wealth management and most importantly, he understands the attorney psyche.  Chris and I talk about the financial planning issues that face senior attorneys, how Chris got involved in this work, and what are the issues that are particularly challenging for attorneys in managing money.

Episode 62- Finanancial & Career Planning for Senior Attorneys

 As we’ve discussed several times on this show, there are 100s of law firms  throughout the country that are facing succession planning issues.  Baby boomers are aging quickly and firms that want to be in business in 10 years need to have a plan that makes room for the next generation.  How can firms make a successful transition and ensure the long-term viability of their practices?  What options are available to firms? In this episode, I’m excited to welcome Jeremy Poock who knows a lot about this subject.  Jeremy, who is Founder of Senior Attorney Match, works with lawyers who have practiced for at least 30 years. He helps develop, design, and implement succession plans for their law practices.  He has a great model for helping senior lawyers to get value out of their firms while ensuring a smooth transition into the future. More Resources Episode 58-Managing Your Exit (Career Succession Planning—with Bill Lahey) Episode 50- Late Career Shift to Public Service Episode 40-Succession Planning for Law Firms Meets Chapter 3 for Lawyers 

Episode 61-Succession Planning With Senior Attorney Match

In this episode, we return to a coaching session with Beth Masterman.  If you haven’t heard Part I, you should go back and listen to that first.  In today’s episode, several months have now past and Beth and I are continuing to explore my next career move. To recap,  Steve, is a 9th year real estate associate at Smith Johnson, an AmLaw 100 firm.  Steve was passed up for partnership and reached out to Beth for help. Steve is not a real person but he has issues which are similar to the issues that some of my clients have faced. After our first session, I reflected on some of the insights I gained from speaking to Beth.  Here is what I came up with: The decision by Smith Johnson was a business decision; it had little to do with me. While there are things I like about Smith Johnson and it has been a great experience, it really isn't the best platform for building my practice. Real estate is not a strategic focus of the firm and because my bill rate is so high, it is hard to generate the work I want to do. The partners I work with are not good role models for what I want from my life and my career. I've never thought about a Plan B and always thought that I'd make partner; but now I get a chance to think more critically. This session takes place several months after this first session.  In working with Beth, I reaffirmed that I actually do like practicing law and even like doing real estate (although it would be nice to branch out a little and do more than leasing).  I met with some contacts at several mid-sized firms but I’m now feeling  that running my own practice is the way to go. But I have some concerns. Additional Resources Listen to Part I of the Mock Interview Listen to my original interview with Beth Masterman What is attorney coaching and how does it work (follow links to see examples and read more about how coaching works.) 

Episode 60-A Mock Coaching Session-Part II

 Counsel to Counsel is now in it’s third year and with this episode, we decided to try something a little different. Many people ask me to explain what coaching is.  While I’ve written about the subject and had on today’s guest in an earlier episode to talk about coaching, I thought that doing a mock coaching session would be a great way to demonstrate the power of working with an executive coach.  I decided that Beth Masterman would be a great guest to invite back. Thankfully, she agreed to do it.  Beth has been a wonderful mentor to me and I truly value her wisdom and the guidance and support she has given me over the last two years. Beth is a certified and credentialed by the International Coach Federation and has a Graduate Certificate in Executive Coaching.  She is also a lawyer and has a master’s in psychology. As an executive coach, Beth is great at helping her clients consider possibilities and interpret the big picture.  She was recently named the Number One Executive Coach in the Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly Readers Rankings awards. In this mock session, I play Steve, a 9th year real estate associate at Smith Johnson, an AmLaw 100 firm.  Steve has been passed up for partnership and he has reached out to Beth for help. Steve is is based on a client that Steve Secker worked with several years ago. This is the first of two parts. Additional Resources Listen to my original interview with Beth Masterman What is attorney coaching and how does it work (follow links to see examples and read more about how coaching works.) 

Episode 59-A Mock Coaching Session-Part I

With aging baby boomer in their senior ranks, 100s of law firms  throughout the country are facing succession planning issues.  How can the firm make a successful transition and ensure the long-term viability of their practice?  How will the younger partners step into the role of managing client relationships so the clients are well served in the future? Underpinning all of this is a reality for many firms. Lawyers are living longer, practicing longer, and have very strong professional identities as lawyers.  What will these attorneys do when they are no longer chairing a department?  What are some of the creative strategies that lawyers have used to figure out What Comes Next. My guest, Bill Lahey, has thought a lot about that subject.  Bill began his career in the public sector, worked for one large firm, one small firm and over 4 years, cut his hours by 20% per year and is not entirely out of the practice of law.  Along the way, Bill has experimented with pro bono work, taken a sabbatical in Bhutan, and explored graduate degrees in two fields.  He is anything but a “typical lawyer” and I invited him on the show to share some tips for senior lawyers who aren’t sure how to make their own transitions. Additional Resources Episode 40-Succession Planning for Law Firms Meets Chapter 3 for Lawyers Episode 50-A Late Career Shift to Public Service Episode 19-Canoeing vs. Whitewater Rafting-A Career Conversation With Jose Sierra Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life 

Episode 58-Managing Your Exit (Career Succession Planning-- with Bill Lahey, Esq.)

Counsel to Counsel is a periodic podcast produced by Stephen Seckler of Seckler Legal Recruiting and Coaching (www.counseltocounsel.com). It addresses important career and marketing issues facing attorneys. The target audience is associates, counsel and partners at law firms of all sizes; but the podcast also addresses issues that are relevant to in-house counsel, law students or any lawyer who is looking for career insights inside or outside of the law. Counsel to Counsel is aimed at individual lawyers who are looking to increase their own career satisfaction. The podcast features interviews with leading consultants, career professionals and marketing experts who advise attorneys on careers, marketing, law firm management and related issues. The guests are also a roster of successful attorneys who have found career satisfaction inside and outside the law. Counsel to Counsel is a direct outgrowth of the blog Counsel to Counsel which Stephen Seckler has been publishing since 2005. Since graduating from law school in the late 1980s, Stephen Seckler has been recruiting top legal talent, advising lawyers on career and marketing issues and working with major law firms, life sciences and technology companies to recruit top talent. He began blogging when legal blogging was in its infancy and his blog Counsel to Counsel was named to the ABA Journal’s Blawg 100 in 2007 and 2008 (the first two years that list was in existence). Steve has written extensively on career and marketing issues and he has spoken at many law school, law firm and bar association events. He served on the Boston Bar Association’s Standing Committee on Work Life Balance and was Vice Chair of the Law Practice Management Section of the Massachusetts Bar Association. He is a part of the Law.Com Legal Blog Watch and over the years, he has been quoted frequently in the legal and business press.

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Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers

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